Jean Baptiste RENAUD DIT LOCA
- Born: 12 Oct 1819, Sorel, Richelieu, Quebec
- Marriage: Marie-Angele THIBEAU (THIBAULT) on 9 Sep 1844 in Ste-victoire, Richelieu, Quebec
- Died: 1905-1910, Southbridge, Worcester, Massachusetts at age 86
Another name for Jean was dit Loca.
Information from 1860-1880 US census, Sue Herbert at email@example.com, 12 Jan 2006. She used Mormon films of the Canadian Catholic and Southbridge bmd records as well as teh US census to trace teh family. Her husband is descended from one of Angele's brothers. She also used Pierre Renaud's records. I e-mailed him but have not yet heard back. She is supposed to send me her 40+ page file.
Jean Baptiste Renaud who married Angele Thibault. Wedding entry: 9 Sep 1844 Ste-Victoire, Richelieu, Quebec.
Jeane Baptiste Renaud dit Loca, major son of Joseph and Elizabeth Care dit Laroche
Angele Thibeau, minor daughter late Charles and Late Elizabeth Lataille
Winesses: Joseph Renaud dit Loca (pre), Joseph Renaud dit Loca (frere), Pierre St. Martin (Beaufrere of bride), Antoine Thibeau (Frere), several others.
Mariages de Compte Richelieu
in : Histoire des Franco-Américains de Southbridge, Massachusetts by Félix Gatineau, Framingham, MA: Lakeview Press, 1919It mentions the following French-Canadian arrivals in Southbridge: 1857, J. B. Renaud from St. Cesaire; and 1859, Louis Renaud, no place given.
Sue Herbert, who researched this line, says she knows of 12 children, though Angele in the 1900 census said she had 14 children with 8 living at that time.
Sue Hebert sent me her research,and she is the best source of my data.
Jean-Baptiste Renaud baptised, son of Joseph and Elisabeth Quarre. St-Pierre, Sorel, County of Richeleiu, Quebec, Baptemes, Mariages & Sepultures vol 2 1811-41, Societe de Genealogie de Lanaudiere, pub. no. 25.
John Renoe - may have been indexed in ancestry.com as Kenoe. Southbridge. b Canada. 45
No property, personal estate worth $100.
John Jn 15
Mary 1 All born in Canada.
Renno (looks like Penno), John 54 Works at Print or Paint works
Joseph 18 works in paint or print works
Edward 19? at home
Mary 12 works in cottom mill
Mary is listed as the last child born in Canada; later children were born in Massachusetts.
John Reno 68 or 69
Mary daughter 20 works in woolen mill
Frank son 18 works in woolen mill
Delia daughter 16 works in woolen mill
Israel son 12 at school. Israel born in Massachusetts, the others in Canada.
It would make sense to think that Isabel and Israel were the same person, but Israel definitely existed as he has his own household in later censuses, and Israel is listed as a boy, and Isabel as a girl.
1900 census, he and Angele lived in Southbridge with their son Joseph Reneau and his wife Eliza.
Joseph b June 1847, 29
Eliza b July 1850, 29
Baptiste b Jun 1876, 23
Pierre (Peter) b Apr 1879 age 21
Baptiste (Jean), father b Oct 1819, 80
Angele mother b Jul 1826 73
Of those, Joseph and Baptiste (the son) were born in Massachusetts, everyone else and their parents were born in Canada.
Another Jean Baptiste Renaud of near teh same age lived in Spencer, is found there in the 1870 census (while my Jean Baptiste is found in Southbridge or Sturbridge in the 1870 census), and died in Spencer in 187_. He married Dina Masse/ Mace, and came from St. Pie, Bagot, Quebec, about 1853-4, settled in N. Brookfield, then Spencer, Massachusetts.
By Peggy Hoehne
All genealogy research is complicated. Accurate records were not kept. Names were spelled as they sounded. Officials "Anglicized" names they didn't understand.
But when you start researching French-Canadian names you discover another level of name confusion. Translating from the French, Dit means "called" or "also known as." It wasn't an alias, as in trying to assume a different identity. It was actually a way of identifying different individuals.
The French, even more than some others, tended to use a very few names over and over. Every generation seemed to have a Jean Baptiste and a Marie Joseph. Sometimes there would even be more than one Jean Baptiste per generation.
In my SansPitie or Sampica line there are three generations of Jean Babtiste's. To further complicate my life the Asselin or Ancelin line also has two back to back generations of Jean Baptiste Bellfluer's. I was never sure which Jean Baptiste I was referring to.
This was one of the reasons for dit, pronounced "d", names. When Jean Baptiste Asselin had a son named Jean Baptiste, the son may have become Jean Baptiste Asselin dit Ancelin (Jean Baptiste Asselin known as Ancelin). His children, and even himself at different times, might choose to use any combination of these names. He might be Jean Baptiste Ancelin, or Jean Babtiste Asselin, or Jean Baptiste Ancelin dit Asselin. Some children might use one form and other children another.
Some other reasons for using dit names were to describe an occupation, a place name, physical characteristics, character description, heroic deed or accomplishment, or a nickname. Many men began using dit names while they were in the military. Some dit names were the mothers surname or the fathers first name.
If you are searching for ancestors with French Canadian backgrounds do not overlook the use of dit names. Every record must be checked. The same name may not even be used on the baptismal record as was used on the birth record. There are lists of the most commonly used dit names recorded in some of the French-Canadian resource books.
We have found some of these listed names in our family research. We have also found others not on the published lists. The following are some we have found.
Dit names and their equivalents.
Aclin - Asselin
Asselin - Ancelin
Descent - SansPitie
SansPitie - Sampica
"Dit" Names - What Are They, and How Were They Used In French Canada?
Many researchers with French-Canadian ancestors are often confused or stoppedin their research by the ever-present usage of what is called a "dit" name. A verybrief way of explaining this is that a "dit" name (in the case of a man) or "dite" name(for women) is a form of an alias. Its usage is almost only in France, New France orQuebec, or occasionally in Scotland where clan names may include a "sept" orsubgrouping name. We will focus here on the usage of these names in New Franceor Quebec.
The word "dit" or "dite" comes from the French verb "dire" which means "to speak"or "to say". When used with a name, as in our examples here, it literally means"so-called". In the simple way of understanding, our ancestors used these "dit"names to distinguish one member of a family from another. It was very common toname a son for his father or grandfather, a daughter for a mother or beloved aunt.But with the same given name appearing with the same surname repeatedly (andespecially in the small communities of New France), one could easily becomeconfused as to who was being spoken of......Marie, daughter of Marie, whose auntMarie is the neighbor, all of them of the surname Belanger, can quickly confuse alistener, or confuse the poor notary who records the various marriages, births anddeaths.
Among some reasons for the dit names, we can find:- a surnames used in the army, to designate the company of a particular man- the original place of origin in France of a family- the addition of a land name or location, inhabited by an ancestor- the first name of an ancient, French, ancestor who the family honors in memory- a variety of descriptive terms, either of hair color, temperament, weight or honorfor a particular patriarch of a family.- and probably many other reasons, now lost to us today!How does a "dit" name look? Let me use the name of one of my own ancestors.....Mathieu Amiot dit Villeneuve
Mathieu is the first or given name of my ancestor
Amiot is, in this case, the patronym or ancestral family name that came over fromFrance.
and "dit Villeneuve" is the dit name that our ancestor took when, in his 50s, thisancestor was given the control of an area of land, a seigneury, in honor of hisservice to the King and presentation of papers of nobility in recognition of thatservice. Mathieu and his descendants, understandably, were quite proud of thisrecognition and so attached the dit name of "new town or city" to designate theirnew land ownership and higher social position. Now, many of Mathieu's sons anddaughters carried this designation in their name, until some generations later, someof the sons and grandsons earned their own recognition for services to the King orcolony. One of Mathieu's sons became Jean-Baptiste Amiot "dit Neuville" when hewas given the lands in and around Neuville. A second cousin of Jean-Baptiste,meanwhile, was calling himself Charles-Joseph Amiot "dit Vincelot" for similarreasons (he received the lands and seigneury of Vincelot). Down through thegenerations, six to be exact to my great-great-grandfather, carried this long name of"Amiot dit Villeneuve" until Joseph Villeneuve dropped the "Amiot dit" portion of hisname when many Canadians of French ancestry were asked to simplify their namesin a process of standardization that took place in the early to mid-1800s. Otherparts of our family have retained the "AMIOT" name, some have changed it to"AMYOT" or "AMYOTTE" or "AMIOTTE", but our common ancestor was aPhilippe Amiot of Soissons, Picardie. To further confuse you, there are also twoother "VILLENEUVE" families in French-Canada who do not share the sameancestry with me nor with each other! BUT don't be discouraged! There is much tohelp you!!
Many of the standard, and accepted, texts of French-Canadian ancestry haveappendices or indexes in the back of the book with cross-references to the originalancestral names or the common "dit" names associated with them. And thecross-reference will show the ancestral names of the often-similar "dit" names .....The common "dit" name of LaFLEUR (the flower), associated with my ancestralfamily Sevigny, also could be the dit name for 54 other ancestral names!LaMontagne (the mountain, maybe a mountain fortress or stronghold) oftenconnotates a military connection for a family, but also is connected to 15 ancestralnames. One of my Acadian ancestors, Julien Lord dit Lamontagne, carried thisname and was a defender of his village.
What "dit" names requires of us as researchers is some extra effort. You may notknow which name to follow backwards or forwards.....if my ancestor's name isVILLENEUVE, but his father's name was AMIOT dit VILLENEUVE, then are allof the children carrying this name? If you are attempting to derive the descents of alllines from a common ancestor with a "dit" name, you must carefully watch theoriginal records for changes.....Following my ancestral "de Sevigne" family down, Ihave found the following variations from the "dit" name as well as the ancestralname: Sevigne, Sevigny, Sevegny, Sevigny dit Lafleur, Lafleur, Fleur, and a distantrelative in New England tells me there are also Flower families with this lineage!AND some of the family have been reported to take the dit name "Neuville" andcarry that today as this was the village of the family's long residence and influencethrough many generations down to present times.
However, don't be discouraged!!! Many, if not all, of the French-Canadianreferences and resources take this seemingly confusing area into account, and willprovide you with cross-reference after cross-reference to help you connect with theright people. As always, the recommendation remains - USE ORIGINALRECORDS with all of these to be sure!
Good references and further information about the "dit" names can be obtainedfrom:
Rene Jette's book, Dictionnaire genealogique des familles du Quebec des origines a1730;Thomas J. Laforest's book, volume III, of Our French-Canadian Ancestors,translated from Nos Ancetres, by R.P. Gerard Lebel;The classic Tanguay volumes (in French), and a short summary of the namesappears in Denis Beauregard's marvelous web page at:Genealogy of Quebec: What are dit names <http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/ditnames.html> http://www.cam.org/%7Ebeaur/gen/ditnames.html <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>.
Jean married Marie-Angele THIBEAU (THIBAULT), daughter of Charles THIBAULT (THIBEAU) and Marie Elizabeth LATAILLE-TAILLON, on 9 Sep 1844 in Ste-victoire, Richelieu, Quebec. (Marie-Angele THIBEAU (THIBAULT) was born in Jul 1826 around Sorel, Quebec.)