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[832-838]

CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES' AGENTS AND THE GEORGIA COMMISSIONERS.

Index ... Part: 1 ... 2 ... 3


No. 16.

Copy of a letter from the Commissioners to Major T. P. Andrews, Special Agent, &c.

Princeton, Indian Nation, July 1, 1825.

Sir:

Your communication of this morning, in reply to ours of the same date, has been received. We cannot see the analogy between the cases cited. Your and the general's correspondence with the Indians, we presume, from your note, has been conducted in writing. You have had time and leisure in your rooms to make your communications; the Indians, on the other hand, have had reasonable time allowed them to respond.

Your objects have been national; ours relate to the elucidation of a few facts, and to correct erroneous opinions in relation to a few incidents connected with the late disturbances. We respectfully, and in great deference to the opinions of you and the general, ask, as a right due to Georgia, to examine a lew chiefs in General Gaines's room, or in Major Rockwell's, the counsel for Colonel Crowell. We ask it from the following considerations: First, that the examination and crossexamination would, in all probability, consume a day. Secondly, that we always intended, and have always so expressed ourselves, that it should be under the immediate observation and control of General Gaines and yourself, and under the observation of Colonel Crowell and his counsel. Under such an arrangement, we cannot withhold the expression of our opinion, that, if any advantage existed, it would certainly be on the side of the agent. Thirdly, it does not seem reasonable to us, in the compliance of an unreasonable request by the Indians, that they will hold no converse or communication with the Georgia commissioners, unless in the open square, that we should be subjected to all the inconveniences of the most inclement season, when no possible injury could result to themselves or the agent in pursuing the course we propose. Fourthly, from the facility of communication with themselves by signs, as well as in a language we do not understand, we are firmly of the opinion that no possible good could result in the examination we propose, if their proposition be adopted; no possible injury could result to any person from the adoption of the course we propose, under the restrictions and safeguards we accede to. Fifthly, if we have not been misinformed, the agent has had all the benefits and indulgencies extended to him that we ask for or claim. We would respectfully suggest to General Gaines to recall to his recollection the distinct and posi­tive understanding on this subject in his room, between the Georgia commissioners and himself.

The interrogatories we propose exhibiting are reduced to writing, and we had no wish to submit them in anv other form. It belongs to you Gentlemen:, exclusively, to say whether the like indulgence will be afforded us.

Yours, &c. &c.
Warren Jourdan,
Wm. W. Williamson,
Commissioners.

Major T. P. Andrews.

No. 17.

Copy of a letter from Major T. P. Andrews, Special Agent, to the Georgia Commissioners,

Princeton, Indian Nation, July 1, 1825.

Gentlemen:

Your communication, in reply to my letter of this morning, was handed to me whilst General Gaines and myself were engaged in council with the Indians at Broken Arrow. I immediately handed it to the general, who stated your request to the chiefs in council, and urged them to accede to it. I am requested by General Gaines to say that he has no objections to the chiefs meeting you at any place; but that the objection is made by the chiefs themselves, and that he is not disposed to insist on their doing so against their own determination. My objection relates solely to any questions being put to them that are not in writing, and by that means placed on record, and out of danger of being misapprehended. My objection was elicited in consequence of having understood from General Gaines that Colonel Jones, of your board, refused to put them in writing. Yrou will permit me to remark, that, on the score of time, neither General Gaines nor myself can but think that you have had at least as much time in which to make your examination as any other person or persons whatever; indeed, from the number of your board, it is thought that you enjoy, in that respect, very great advantages. The only questions put to the Indians, in relation to the Indian agent, were propounded to them, and answered in the course of an hour or so, without leaving the council, and not as supposed in your communication.

As it regards the exposure of the commissioners of Georgia to the inclemency of the weather, I cannot but remind you that it is an exposure which the general and myself would have taken pleasure to share with you, although we have already been exposed to that weather for some time without intermission.

I take this opportunity of assuring you that you have been misinformed in supposing that the agent has had the " benefits and indulgences which you ask for."

The general directs me to say that he does not consider himself as having had any understanding which mili­tates in the smallest degree with his present determination of not compelling the Indians by force (if he had a force near him, which you know is not the case,) to attend the examination in the particular manner you request of him.

Ho has not only requested them, but urged them, so far as he could do so with propriety, to accede to your request, which they have replied to with great fixedness, as you will perceive from their reply, which he requests me to say will be handed to you so soon as it can be made out and copied.

With high consideration and respect, your obedient servant,
T. P. Andrews, Special Agent.

To Cols. Warren Jourdan and W. W. Williamson, Commissioners.

No. 18.

Copy of a letter received from Major E. G. W. Butler.

Headquarters, Eastern Department, Creek Agency, July 1, 1825.

Gentlemen:

Major General Gaines yesterday communicated to the Indian council, in presence of Colonel Williamson, the wish of the Georgia commissioners to examine a few of the chiefs, and remarked that it would not be necessary for them to remain in council after today, as the commissioners were desirous of taking their testimony out of council.

HopoithleYoholo, speaker of the Creek Nation, answered that the council would remain in session, if the general wished it, but that he would transact no business in private with the Georgia commissioners.

Having received your request this day, the general accordingly notified the council. HopoithleYoholo replied, that the plan pursued by the Georgians, of taking them out of their square, had caused all their troubles, and imposed on the general the necessity of coming here. He repeated their determination not to meet you privately, and remarked that private meetings, where persons do not adhere to truth, make difficulties, and have brought General Gaines here. He observed, moreover, that he did not know what further to say to you, as you had learned their difficulties through Mr. Compere, and that he thought their business was with General Gaines, as the President required information; that the Indians were involved in their present difficulties by the Georgians; and, as the general was about to succeed in settling them, they thought it best to refrain from an interview, lest it should pre­vent his success, and put him to the inconvenience of returning again; that Georgia intrigues had brought them from their crops, which were necessary to feed their little children; and that the Muscogee nation and Georgia were like two children that quarrel, and if one is stronger than the other, he tells lies on him, puts him in the wrong, and then gets him whipped for it. General Gaines here remarked, that there were good people in Georgia as in all other States; to which Hopoithle Yoholo assented. He concluded his remarks by saying that he supposed the Master of breath had decieed that the Muscogee nation should be reduced and imposed upon; that the time had now arrived, and he presumed it must happen.

I have the honor to enclose the above remarks, literally, as they were taken down by me, for your satisfaction and information.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. G. W. Butler,
Aid-de-camp, and Secretary to the Mission.

To Colonels Warren Jourdan and W. W. Williamson,
Commissioners.

We certify that we were present during the above remarks, and that they are correct, as reported by Lieuten­ant Butler.

William Hambly, United States Interpreter.
Benjamin Hawkins, Interpreter for the McIntosh party.

No. 19.

Copy of a letter from M. J. Kenan, Secretary, &c., to Major E. G. W. Butler.

Crabtree's, Creek Nation, July 3, 1825.

Sir:

I am directed by the commissioners on the part of Georgia to acknowledge the receipt of your communication of the 1st instant, detailing at great length the reasons assigned by Hopoithle Yoholo and other chiefs for declining the proposition of the Georgia commissioners to be " examined in private." No such requisition as this, sir, has as yet been made, nor was it ever intended. The wish and request of the commissioners was, that he, together with other chiefs, should be examined separately and apart, and under every restriction and safeguard which the general, the special agent, and the counsel for the agent, might suggest.

In replying further, I have been directed to say to you, that the commissioners believe the statements attributed to Hopoithle Yoholo to have been interpreted to you in the manner related; but that, if the recording angel were to make such a statement as coming from Hopoithle Yoholo, they should still be incredulous and of little faith. In making this declaration, they wish not to be understood as intending any insinuation the most remote against the majesty of Him who sits enthroned in justice, wisdom, and truth, and who they believe is at this moment taking special cognizance of the transactions of men, but to convey to you in the strongest terms the utter and unavailable attempt to impose such statements on the representatives of Georgia as the unadvised effusions of the speaker of the council of the Creek Nation of Indians.

They must conscientiously believe that every person who possesses an acquaintance with their situation and capacities, and who would be governed in their opinions and belief by the dictates of truth and impartiality, would irresistibly conclude that this is not the language of an untutored savage. No, sir; they believe it to be the work of that " wily and perfidious individual whose life and character have been too much diversified and too strongly marked to make him a fit officer of public trust;" of him who, if half that is said be true, is the most corrupt and unprincipled being that disgraces and dishonors even Indian society; of him who, it is said, was the faithful pilot to Pakenham's army in their advance upon New Orleans; who, it is also said, was the commander of a large detachment of Seminole Indians in the late war, and afterwards commanded a negro fort on the Appalachicola at the close of the war; and who, to cap the climax, is at this time the trustworthy and confidential interpreter of your Government. And this, sir, is the immaculate individual whose vices and whose crimes are proverbial; who, under the specious pretext of an Indian talk, is licensed to abuse indiscriminately the Government of Georgia, its public functionaries, and its citizens. From such an administration, and such agents, may we speedily obtain a happy and constitutional deliverance.

It is due to the commissioners and to the legitimate authorities of Georgia to say thus much, and not from any respect to the individual who is the subject of it; for if he alone had been concerned, a moment's reflection would not have been bestowed on him.

You will no doubt think the remarks concerning Mr. Hambly to be acrimonious: they nevertheless are deemed just, and necessary to a vindication of their conduct, and the respectable citizens of our much beloved State, upon whom, of late, copious showers of slander and abuse have been gratuitously and wantonly poured. An allusion has been made to the Rev. L. Compere - a passing remark will suffice on that subject. The commissioners think him a fit associate and companion of the interpreter of your Government, and they are confirmed in the opinion from the reflection that he has, with the most unblushing effrontery, made public a statement relative to the late disturbances in the Creek Nation, which he refuses to confirm by affirmation or oath; a statement with which truth has no connexion. And they are justified in the conclusion that, when Gentlemen: of his cloth turn hypocrites and degrade the dignity of their office, they become the most mercenary and deceitful revilers of truth, regardless alike of every moral principle and every sentiment which bind, govern, or influence the conduct of pious and honest men.

They ask pardon of the reverend gentleman for not assigning him an honorary rank and membership in the dishonorable purpose of misrepresentation, defamation, and falsehood.

In conclusion, permit me to remark, that no offence is intended you in this reply. They wholly disclaim any such wish or intention. Your deportment has been marked with more courtesy and respect than any other public functionary belonging to your mission, with whom they have transacted business.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
M. J. Kenan, Secretary to Mission.

Major Butler, Princeton.

No. 20.

Copy of a letter from Major Butler to the Commissioners.

Headquarters, Eastern Department, Creek Agency, July 3, 1825.

Gentlemen:

Your communication of this date is now before me. The remarks which I submitted to you yesterday were, as I then informed you, " for your information and satisfaction;" and I owe it to Georgia and to myself to say that delicacy would have prevented me from furnishing those remarks, had you not urged the separate examination of certain chiefs, after they had positively declined, in presence of Colonel Williamson, to meet you out of council.

If, in using the expression " examined in private," in contradistinction to examined in council, I did not convey your meaning, I hope you will pardon me. "

In replying to your remarks concerning the incapacity of Hopoithle Yoholo, I cannot but express to you, gentlemen, the pride and satisfaction I experience in being afforded an opportunity of offering my feeble testimony to the independence, frankness, and astonishing natural abilities which so eminently distinguish this noble warrior. There can exist no reasonable doubt of the extraordinary powers of his comprehensive mind. I have seen them elicited on various occasions, through the medium of four different interpreters, and witnessed by men of talents and integrity.

So far as relates to Mr. Hambly, United States interpreter, I beg you will forgive me for not concurring with you in your opinion. I have no reason to doubt his integrity; and when I say he possesses the confidence of Andrew Jackson, with whom he served on trying occasions, I offer you the highest evidence I can afford of his integrity; at least so far as he was concerned with the Seminole Indians and at New Orleans.

Of the correctness of his interpretations before the council, I will merely remark, that it is confirmed by the testimony of four interpreters, one of whom belongs to the McIntosh party, and had been selected by the Georgia commissioners. The importance of my official duties prevents me from replying more fully to your communication; but while I tender you my most respectful acknowledgments for the complimentary manner in which you mention my deportment, I spurn your insinuations against the General Government, under which I have the honor to hold a commission.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. G. W. Butler, Aid-de-camp, and Secretary to the Mission.

To Colonels W. Jourdan and W. W. Williamson,
Georgia Commissioners.

No. 21.

Copy of a letter from the Commissioners to Major General E. P. Gaines.

Uchee Bridge, July 3, 1825.

Sir:

We have this evening received a letter from Major Butler, as Aid-de-camp and secretary to. the mission, in which we find he has made a mistake. We notice it that it may be corrected. Major Butler states, that " of the correctness of his (Hambly's) interpretations before the council, I will merely remark, that it is confirmed by the testimony of four interpreters, one of whom belongs to the McIntosh party, and had been selected by the Georgia commissioners." In the employment of Benjamin Hawkins (for we presume he is the one alluded to) as an interpreter, we most positively disclaim any agency — even a recommendation; and the first intimation we had of it was your declaration at the time you were about entering into the conversation with the Little Prince, (and at which you had invited us to attend,) that you had brought him with you as a check upon the other interpreter. We then expressed ourselves satisfied with the arrangement you had made.

Instead of answers to the interrogatories submitted by us to Kendal Lewis, we this morning received the interrogatories themselves, with information that he had absented himself. We are therefore under the necessity of requesting you to issue an order that he may be brought before us for examination.

We would be glad to have copies of the talks which have passed between yourself and the Indian council, either in writing or which were taken down by Major Butler, that we may be able to lay them before the Governor of Georgia. As Major Butler may be very much engaged, our secretary (Mr. Kenan) will take great pleasure in making the transcript, and he will only have to subjoin his certificate after he has examined them.

With considerations of high respect, we are, sir, your obedient servants,
Seaborn Jones,
Warren Jourdan,
W. W. Williamson,
Wm. H. Torrance,
Commissioners.

Major General E. P. Gaines.

No. 22.

Major Sutler to the Commissioners.

Headquarters, Eastern Department, Creek Agency, July 4, 1825.

Gentlemen:

I am instructed by Major General Gaines to reply to your communication of the 3d instant.

'You say that I was mistaken in my remarks that one of the interpreters (meaning Hawkins) " had been selected by the Georgia commissioners." You acknowledge that you expressed your satisfaction with General Gaines's arrangement of using Hawkins as a check upon the United States' interpreter; and in your communication to General Gaines of the 1st instant, you remark, " we shall object to Colonel Hambly as an interpreter; we shall select Hawkins."

The general further instructs me to say to you that Kendal Lewis declared to him that he knew nothing but from report, and, if he has refused to give his testimony, he has not the power to compel him; that the authenticity of the Indian talks having been denied by the commissioners, he deems it proper to retain them until they can be officially promulgated; and finally, that his courtesy having been impeached by the commissioners, notwithstanding his efforts to meet their wishes, so far as was consistent with his official duties, he thinks it proper that your correspondence should cease.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. G. W. Butler,
Aid-de-camp and Secretary to the Mission.

To Colonels S. Jones, W. Jourdan, W. W. Williamson, and W. H. Torrance,
Georgia Commissioners.

No. 23.

Copy of a letter from Messrs. Smith, Compere, and Hill.

Asbury, June 27, 1825.

Gentlemen:

Since our interview with you on Saturday last, we have considered your request, and therefore beg leave to assure you, that, while for your individual persons we entertain sentiments of the highest respect, and feel no desire to infringe on you in your official capacity, we are compelled, from a sense of propriety, to decline answering any questions either upon oath or affirmation. But as we have no disinclination to afford what information may be in our power, we are willing to answer questions you may propose to us, provided such inquiries are made in writing, and our answers may be given in the same way. We beg leave further to state, that, if our communication should be demeed important, if the United Slates should require us to give it the validity of an oath, we shall be willing to accede to it.

With sentiments of respect, we remain yours,
Isaac Smith,
Lee Compere,
W. C. Hill.

To Messrs. Jones, Torrance, and Jourdan.

No. 24.

Testimony of James Moss.

Creek Nation, (at Kendal Lewis's:)

By virtue of a commission from his excellency the Governor of the State of Georgia, to us directed, to receive and examine testimony in relation to the conduct of Colonel John Crowell, agent for Indian affairs for the Creek Nation of Indians, we have caused James Moss to come before us, who, being duly sworn, saith:

That, shortly after the time that the Rev. William Capers made application to the council of Indian chiefs for liberty for missionaries to preach, (where they had been solicited,) he was present at conversations of the agent, Colonel Crowell, at the house of Thomas Crowell, at Fort Mitchell, in the Creek Nation, and at other places, where the agent stated that Mr. Capers, in his application to the chiefs for leave to preach in the nation, referred to the laws of the United States, and urged the right to preach wherever the United States [had] authority; but that the chiefs refused him; that, to get them to refuse, he (the agent) before the chiefs went into council went to the tent of the Big Warrior, and gave him a talk not to let the missionaries preach in the nation.

Deponent further states, that, some time since, (he believes in the year 1822,) in a conversation that the agent had with him, the agent told the deponent that himself and Thomas Crbwell, his brother, had failed for a large amount, (he believes between the sums of thirteen thousand and seventeen thousand dollars;) that he had placed his brother, Thomas Crowell, at Fort Mitchell, to make what money he could to pay off the debts of the firm; that, at that time, Thomas Crowell had a considerable stock of goods in the nation at Fort Mitchell.

That, while David B. Mitchell was agent, Drury Spain, a white man residing in the nation, sold to the Cussetah Indians about twenty hundred or twentyfive hundred dollars worth of goods, for which several of the Cussetah chiefs gave him an obligation to pay the same; that the same was not paid until the present agent came into office; that Mr. Spain applied to the agent to aid and assist him in getting the amount, but that the agent refused, and said that he would not render Mr. Spain any assistance to get the same; that, after the lapse of more than a year, Mr. Spain sold the obligation to the agent's brother Thomas and another person, at a reduction of five hundred dollars, or thereabouts: the agent said that he would see that Mr. Spain was paid for a flat (a ferryboat) that he built; that, after the transfer of the obligation above named, the deponent was keeper of a tollbridge in the nation, which belonged to the Cussetah Indians; that he received orders to pay over the money he received as toll to the holders of the obligation, and did so while he kept the bridge; that lie also saw credits on the same obligation on account of payments made by money received from the Flint river ferry, at the agency; that the deponent settled in the Creek Nation in the summer of 1821, within about forty miles of the agency.

After the foregoing statements were made, Mr. Moss was asked by the commissioners whether or not he believed (and, if so, the reasons of that belief) that the agent was friendly or unfriendly to the late treaty. He stated that he heard the agent say, a few days before the death of General McIntosh, that he had brought fruittrees from New York, and planted them at the agency, and fixed himself well, and that McIntosh had then sold him out; and that, from a variety of circumstances, he verily does believe that the agent was decidedly opposed to the treaty; that he .heard one of the Cussetah chiefs who went to the Indian Springs to attend the treaty say that the agent told Paddy Carr, who had acted as interpreter for individuals, to state to some Indians that, if they remained at the Springs that night, they would be compelled to sign the treaty next morning.

James Moss.

Sworn to and subscribed before us, this 28th day of June, 1825.

Wm. H. Torrance,
Seaborn Jones,
Commissioners.


Interrogatories to be exhibited to the Reverend L. Compere.

1st. Were you present when the Indians killed McIntosh and Etome Tustunnuggee?

2d. What was the cause which induced the Indians to kill McIntosh and Etome Tustunnuggee? Was it for the violation of any law? What law was it, and when was it passed? Was it signed by General McIntosh, or made in council held at Broken Arrow?

3d. After McIntosh had received a shot, was he taken out of his house by any chief? If yea, by whom? and what did he say to McIntosh, and what was McIntosh's reply?

4th. Do you know any thing, of your own knowledge, of the circumstances attending the murder of McIntosh and others; or is not all your knowledge derived from the information of others?

5th. Was not Colonel Crowell opposed to a cession of the land by the Indians to the United States, and did he not use his influence to prevent one?

6th. Was Colonel Crowell friendly to a cession of land, and did he use his influence to get them to cede it?

7th. Do you not know or believe (and state the reasons of your belief) that Colonel Crowell instigated Walker to oppose the cession of land, or that Walker was acting agreeably to Colonel Crowell's wishes and directions in doing so?

8th. Did you not write a letter to the editors of the Southern Intelligencer relative to the disturbances in the nation, and the murder of McIntosh and Etome Tustunnuggee? For what purpose did you write that letter? Was it for the purpose of publication? Are the editors of that paper related to you, and in what degree? Do you. know the statements in that letter to be true? Have you written any letter to South Carolina about it, and when, and to whom?

Relate all you know, as if particularly interrogated thereto, concerning the charges against Colonel Crowell, the Indian agent, of having exercised his influence to prevent the late treaty, and also the charge of his being the instigator of, or privy to, the murder of McIntosh. Are you and the agent, or not, upon friendly terms?

W. H. Torrance,
Seaborn Jones,
Commissioners of the State of Georgia.


Mr. Compere's answer.

Asbury, June 27, 1825.

Gentlemen:

In answer to your interrogatories, I have to state that, with respect to your inquiry " if I was present when McIntosh and Etome Tustunnuggee were killed?" I say I was not.

2d. Your inquiry relating to the cause of their death, &c. My belief is, that the cause of their death was the signing a treaty which ceded away part of their land to the United States, in violation of their own laws. My understanding is, that the particular law was one made some years ago, which had been renewed at Broken Arrow, and afterwards at the Polecat Springs. This impression I received from a conversation had with the Big Warrior soon after the breaking up of the meeting held between the United States' commissioners and the Cherokees, and from several conversations with different chiefs after the Indians met at Polecat Springs. With regard to the signing of such a law by McIntosh, I know nothing about it.

3d. After McIntosh was shot, I have been frequently informed he was taken out of the house by a chief whose name I do not now remember. With respect to a conversation passing between him and the chief at that time: at first I did understand such a circumstance did take place, but I have now some reason to believe that my information with respect to that was circumstantially incorrect. For the substance, of that conversation, I refer you to a paragraph in my letter published in the Southern Intelligencer, to the editor of which paper I have subsequently forwarded a notice to inform him in what respect it is incorrect.

4th. As to what I know of these matters, you will perceive from my answer to your second interrogatory that it is all derived from other persons.

5th and 6th. As it respects Colonel Crowell's opposition and agency with regard to a cession of land, I know nothing at all, except that I understood from some of the chiefs, after the meeting at Broken Arrow, that he was altogether neutral.

7th. On your last inquiry I am as unable to give you any information as in some others: for whether Colonel Crowell and Captain Walker have opposed the treaty in conjunction or separately I know not; and that I should not know any thing cannot be wondered at, when it is known that our communications with each other have not been instigated by our friendship for each other.

Yours, with due respect,
L. Compere.

To Messrs. Jones, Torrance, and Jourdan.

P. S. In connexion with what I have stated in answer to the 7th inquiry, as I do not know any thing on the subject, I therefore cannot believe any thing about it.

L. C.

The first time I heard of the killing of McIntosh was on the day the chiefs arrived at Tuckaubatchee with the information to that effect. That morning I had intended to go to the Ufauley town, on business relative to our mission, but was informed by our boys that the Indians were gone up the river to kill McIntosh; and, on further inquiry, was told that this was known among our boys about five days. On being asked why they did not tell me, was answered, because we thought you would tell somebody else.

I have written to the editor of the Intelligencer in reference to this subject. It has been published with my name, and it was done so to give information which, with the exception of a part of a paragraph, (the circumstances of which paragraph I have already explained,) I believe to be correct, from the information I have received from different chiefs and other Indians in the nation.

Some part of the interrogatories I can say nothing, about, as I know nothing about them.

As it respects Colonel Crowell being the instigator of the murder of McIntosh, I can only state that I do not believe it, for two reasons: 1st. The principal chiefs in my neighborhood deny it in the most unequivocating terms. 2d. The agent met the Indians and informed them that the treaty was ratified. Some of the Indians called at our place, and declared that the agent and they had not been friendly all the meeting, for that the chiefs had quarrelled with him all the time.

With regard to any further inquiries about the letter, I cannot answer them, as it is before the public.

L. Compere.

Mr. Compere being requested by the commissioners to swear or affirm to the foregoing facts and belief, as stated by himself, refused to do so; and slated that if the United States required it he would do so.

Warren Jourdan,
W. H. Torrance,
Seaborn Jones,
Commissioners.


Statement of Josiah Gray, an Indian half-breed.

Crabtree's, Creek Nation, July 3, 1825.

Josiah Gray says that, during the council at Broken Arrow, (that is, on the third day,) he received orders from the Little Prince to take the track back home; that he had no business at the council; and that, if he did not obey, the orders in four hours, they would think further about it — meaning, as I supposed, they would do me some injury; that I was talking with the Georgia commissioners, which they did not like; and that they had given orders to their people to hold no talk with the Georgia commissioners. This order was given to me by the chiefs from the Osochee and Uchee towns: they said they received orders from the Little Prince, as above stated. The names of the chiefs are Tholoe Tustunnuggee, Thlewaley Tustunnuggee, and Thelisligah, from the Uchees.

Josiah Gray, his + mark.

Done in the presence of

W. Jourdan,
W. W. Williamson,
Haynes Crabtree.


Testimony of John M. Batch.

State of Alabama, Montgomery County:

By virtue of a commission from his excellency the Governor of the State of Georgia, to us directed, to receive and examine testimony in relation to the conduct of Colonel John Crowell, agent for Indian affairs for the Creek Nation of Indians, we have caused John M. Bach to come before us, who, being duly sworn, saith:

That, during the time that the late Indian treaty was held at the Indian Springs, in Georgia, in February last, he was in a conversation with Colonel Crowell, the agent, concerning the Indian affairs, during which time he mentioned to the agent the death of the Big Warrior; when the agent replied, that it was good he was dead; that he was a damned coward, and ought to have died ten years ago; that if he had cut McIntosh's throat ten years ago, the Indian lands would not have been sold. After the foregoing conversation had passed, the Tuckaubatchee chiefs passed the agent's office, returning from the room where the United States' commissioners were holding the treaty; they were stopped by Paddy, (a lad of about sixteen or seventeen years old, from appearance a half-breed,) who was standing before the agent's office, who addressed them in a short talk: though the deponent does not understand much of the Indian tongue, yet he believes, from what he saw and heard, (the agent being near them,) that the lad Paddy spoke to the chiefs above named to oppose the treaty, and that what he said came from the agent. From the foregoing circumstances, connected with many others, he has no doubt but the agent was opposed to the treaty. The deponent believes that Paddy was in the employ of the Crowells. He has seen him in the store of Thomas Crowell at Fort Mitchell, and at the agent's office at the Springs.

John M. Bach.

Sworn to and subscribed before us, this 30th day of June, 1825.

Wm. H. Torrance,
Seaborn Jones,
Commissioners.


Henry Finch's testimony.

State of Alabama, Montgomery County:

By virtue of a commission to us directed, to take testimony relative to the conduct of Colonel John Crowell, agent of Indian affairs, we have caused Henry Finch to come before us at the house of Benjamin Williamson, in the town of Montgomery, who made the following statement, and was duly sworn to the same:

That, in the month of October, in the year 1821, he applied to Colonel John Crowell, agent for Indian affairs, for a license to trade with the Indians, and to know of him the terms on which it would be granted; that Colonel Crowell told him that he would grant him one on his producing a certificate from some respectable person that he was a man of fair and respectable character, and giving a bond with good security in $1,000 that he would violate no regulations relative to the Indian trade; that he inquired of Colonel John Crowell if he was acquainted with James S. Frierson, Esq., and if his certificate would answer as to his (Finch's) character, and the sufficiency of a man by the name of Stone, whom he proposed to get as his security. To this Colonel Crowell replied, that he was well acquainted with Mr. Frierson, and that his certificate would be sufficient; that he (Finch) then proceeded to Georgia, and saw Mr. Frierson, who told him he would write the agent a letter on the subject; that he then proceeded and purchased a load of goods for the Indian market; and having the letter from Mr. Frierson, and the bond (which the agent had given him) executed by himself, and Stone as his security, he came into the nation, and applied for a license to the agent, and was positively refused; that he told the agent of his promise, of his having laid out his money in consequence of it, for goods suited only for the Indian market, and of the loss he would sustain; that the agent told him Spain would buy his goods; he replied, Spain had no money, and if he sold on a credit, he would lose the tools he had to work with; that the agent then told him Tom Crowell (agent's brother) would buy them: and to this he gave no reply. Next morning the agent told him he had concluded to give him a license to sell out that wagon load of goods, and asked him if he could do it in thirty days, to which he answered yes; upon which the agent gave him a license for one month. He then asked the agent if there was no possible way by which he could get a license to trade when that was out; to which the agent replied there was none. He then left him and sold his goods.

After the month was ended, on his way from the Alabama to Georgia, he had a conversation with Thomas Crowell, at Fort Mitchell, or Princeton, and, talking about the profits of his late adventure, a partnership was proposed by him (Finch) between himself and Thomas Crowell, if he could get a license from the agent. Thomas Crowell said he would write to his brother (the agent) his views on the subject, if he (Finch) would remain till next day; next day (which he thinks was about the 4th of February, 1822,) Thomas Crowell gave him a letter for the agent, and he (Finch) proposed that they should talk over the terms of the copartnership; to which Thomas Crowell replied that it was not necessary, as his brother (the agent) could arrange the terms with him if a license were granted.

He then proceeded to the agency on Flint river, and handed the letter to the agent. After the agent had read the letter, they commenced a conversation about the copartnership, the terms, &c., when the agent drew up the articles between them, by which 500 dollars were to be advanced by each, to constitute a trading capital to be managed by him, (Finch,) in the name of him, (Finch,) for the benefit of him and Thomas Crowell. The profits were to be equally divided, after deducting all expenses, including reasonable wages for him, (Finch,) and the partnership to continue during their mutual pleasure.

That John Crowell, agent, then signed Thomas Crowell's name to the articles, and advanced $400 of the money to him, (Finch;) the other $100 was never advanced by any one; that he never saw the contents of the letter written by Thomas Crowell to the agent, and that his second license was dated about the 6th of February, 1822; that he traded among the Indians for nearly three years, and settled with Thomas Crowell when he closed, and gave him up the articles which had been so signed by John and himself, and took his receipt for upwards of $1,300 in full for the stock and profits; that while the partnership continued, he and Thomas Crowell bought from Drury Spain an account he had against the Cussetah Indians for about $2,500 or $2,600, and gave him for the same $2,000 - onehalf to be taken in goods, $600 to be paid down, and the other $400 to be paid in a few months after. The reason why Spain sold the account, as he then understood, was because the agent refused to give Spain any assistance in getting his money from the Indians, and refused to pay him out of the money which came through the agent's hands, for annuities, ferriages, &c.; that after he and Thomas Crowell purchased the account, they had no difficulty in getting the money paid over to them, as it came into the agent's hands, such as annuities, ferriages, and so forth; that a considerable part of the account had been paid, part by the agent out of the annuity, and part by him from the ferry, where the agent resided, at Flint river. When he settled with Tom Crowell, about the first or last of January, Crowell took the balance of the Spain debt as so much of his share.

This deponent further states, that when the partnership was entered into, there was a verbal restriction imposed on him not to trade within ten miles of Fort Mitchell, (Thomas Crowell's stand,) except in passing. This deponent knows that there has been a store kept at Walker's, the late subagent's, since the fall of 1822, which was always understood to belong to him; that he (Walker) purchased and supplied it with goods, and acted in all respects towards it as owners of stores usually do; that it was on the main trading Federar road from Line creek to Fort Mitchell, and must have [been] seen and known by the agent. This deponent saith, in explanation of that part of his testimony which relates to the annuity, that he received a part of the annuity of 1823, the balance remaining after paying the account due Thomas Crowell; but that he received none of the annuity of 1824, there being so small a balance remaining, after paying Thomas Crowell's account, (made after the payment of the previous annuity,) that it was not worth attending to.

Henry Finch.

The foregoing five and part of sixth pages [MS.] were read over by the witness, and corrected by his directions, and sworn to and signed by him, in our presence, this 30th of June, 1825.

Seaborn Jones,
Wm. H. Torrance,
Commissioners.


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