Ancestors of Russell Owen HJELM

Thirty-First Generation

(Continued)

1663582558. Arnulf (Ernulf) Seigneur De HESDIN is printed as #14684162.

1663582559. Emmelina De NORMANDY is printed as #14684163.

[Child]

1663582560. Roger D' AUBIGNY was born about 1040 in Aubigny, Normandy, France. He died after 1084. Roger married Amice De MOWBRAY. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: G60B-R7
Roger d'Aubigny; married Amice.  [Burke's Peerage]

------------------------------------------------------

Aubigny, Alibini, etc., Earls of Arundel

Saint-Martin d'Aubigny: Manche, arr. Coutances, cant. Periers.

The early history of the family will be found in The Complete Peerage, surname Mowbray, new ed., vol. ix, pp. 366-7.  The details of their benefactions to the abbey of Lessay as confirmed by a charter of Henry II, 1185-1188, identify St-Martin d'Aubigny with the Aubigny which was the caput of their Norman honour; thus the "ecclesiam de Folgeriis" is Feugeres 2 1/2 kil. SE of Aubigny, the "feria Sancti Christofori" mentioned in conjunction with the "forum Albinneii" is St-Christophe-d'Aubigny, a parish now united to that of St-Martin, and "Marchesis" is Marchesieux, 5 kil. NE of Aubigny.  There is no trace of a feudal castle at Aubigny itself, but Gerville found nearby at Le Mesnil-Vigot the remains of a considerable castle with a well-defined motte, then known as "le chateau de St-Clair".  [Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families]

Ancestral File Number: G60B-R7
Roger d'Aubigny; married Amice.  [Burke's Peerage]

------------------------------------------------------

Aubigny, Alibini, etc., Earls of Arundel

Saint-Martin d'Aubigny: Manche, arr. Coutances, cant. Periers.

The early history of the family will be found in The Complete Peerage, surname Mowbray, new ed., vol. ix, pp. 366-7.  The details of their benefactions to the abbey of Lessay as confirmed by a charter of Henry II, 1185-1188, identify St-Martin d'Aubigny with the Aubigny which was the caput of their Norman honour; thus the "ecclesiam de Folgeriis" is Feugeres 2 1/2 kil. SE of Aubigny, the "feria Sancti Christofori" mentioned in conjunction with the "forum Albinneii" is St-Christophe-d'Aubigny, a parish now united to that of St-Martin, and "Marchesis" is Marchesieux, 5 kil. NE of Aubigny.  There is no trace of a feudal castle at Aubigny itself, but Gerville found nearby at Le Mesnil-Vigot the remains of a considerable castle with a well-defined motte, then known as "le chateau de St-Clair".  [Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families]

1663582561. Amice De MOWBRAY was born about 1054 in Aubigny, Normandy, France. She died. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: G60B-SD
Robert, it has been suggested, may have been 1st cousin to Nele through the latter's mother, sister of Roger de Mowbray.  [Burke's Peerage]

[Child]

1663582562. Roger BIGOD [Earl Of East Anglia & Norfolk] was born about 1065 in St. Saveur, Calvados, Normandy, France and was christened in Of Framlingham, Suffolk, England. He died 8 Sep 1107 in Evesham, Suffolk, England. and was buried Unknown in Thetford, Norfolk, England. Roger married Adeliza (Alice) De TOENI Heiress Of Belvoir about 1084 in Leicestershire, England. [Parents]

The first of this great family that settled in England was Roger Bigod who, in the Conqueror's time, possessed six lordships in Essex and a hundred and seventeen in Suffolk, besides divers manors in Norfolk. This Roger, adhering to the party that took up arms against William Rufus in the 1st year of that monarch's reign, fortified the castle at Norwich and wasted the country around. At the accession of Henry I, being a witness of the king's laws and staunch in his interests, he obtained Framlingham in Suffolk as a gift from the crown. We find further of him that he founded in 1103, the abbey of Whetford, in Norfolk, and that he was buried there at his decease in four years after, leaving, by Adeliza his wife, dau. and co-heir of Hugh de Grentesmesnil, high steward of England, a son and heir, William Bigod, steward of the household of King Henry I. [Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 53, Bigod, Earls of Norfolk]

----------Roger Bigod was one of the tight-knit group of second-rank Norman nobles who did well out of the conquest of England. Prominent in the Calvados region before 1064 as an under-tenant of Odo of Bayeux, he rose in ducal and royal service to become, but 1086, one of the leading barons in East Anglia, holding wide estates to which he added Belvoir by marriage and Framlingham by grant of Henry I. His territorial fortune was based on his service in the royal household, where he was a close adviser and agent for the first three Norman kings, and the propitious circumstances of post-Conquest politics. Much of his honour in East Anglia was carved out of lands previously belonging to the dispossessed Archbishop Stigand, his brother Aethelmar of Elham, and the disgraced Earl Ralph of Norfolk and Suffolk. Under Rufus --- if not before --- Roger was one of the king's stewards. Usually in attendance on the king, he regularly witnessed writs but was also sent out to the provinces as a justice or commissioner. Apart from a flirtation with the cause of Robert Curthose in 1088, he remained conspicuously loyal to Rufus and Henry I, for whom he continued to act as steward and to witness charters. The adherence of such men was vital to the Norman kings. Through them central business could be conducted and localities controlled. Small wonder they were well rewarded. Roger established a dynasty which dominated East Anglia from the 1140s, as earls of Norfolk, until 1306. Roger's byname and the subsequent family name was derived from a word (bigot) meaning double-headed instrument such as a pickaxe: a tribute, perhaps to Roger's effectiveness as a royal servant; certainly an apt image of one who worked hard both for his masters and for himself. [Who's Who in Early Medieval England, Christopher Tyerman, Shepheard-Walwyn, Ltd., London, 1996]

The first of this great family that settled in England was Roger Bigod who, in the Conqueror's time, possessed six lordships in Essex and a hundred and seventeen in Suffolk, besides divers manors in Norfolk. This Roger, adhering to the party that took up arms against William Rufus in the 1st year of that monarch's reign, fortified the castle at Norwich and wasted the country around. At the accession of Henry I, being a witness of the king's laws and staunch in his interests, he obtained Framlingham in Suffolk as a gift from the crown. We find further of him that he founded in 1103, the abbey of Whetford, in Norfolk, and that he was buried there at his decease in four years after, leaving, by Adeliza his wife, dau. and co-heir of Hugh de Grentesmesnil, high steward of England, a son and heir, William Bigod, steward of the household of King Henry I. [Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 53, Bigod, Earls of Norfolk]

----------Roger Bigod was one of the tight-knit group of second-rank Norman nobles who did well out of the conquest of England. Prominent in the Calvados region before 1064 as an under-tenant of Odo of Bayeux, he rose in ducal and royal service to become, but 1086, one of the leading barons in East Anglia, holding wide estates to which he added Belvoir by marriage and Framlingham by grant of Henry I. His territorial fortune was based on his service in the royal household, where he was a close adviser and agent for the first three Norman kings, and the propitious circumstances of post-Conquest politics. Much of his honour in East Anglia was carved out of lands previously belonging to the dispossessed Archbishop Stigand, his brother Aethelmar of Elham, and the disgraced Earl Ralph of Norfolk and Suffolk. Under Rufus --- if not before --- Roger was one of the king's stewards. Usually in attendance on the king, he regularly witnessed writs but was also sent out to the provinces as a justice or commissioner. Apart from a flirtation with the cause of Robert Curthose in 1088, he remained conspicuously loyal to Rufus and Henry I, for whom he continued to act as steward and to witness charters. The adherence of such men was vital to the Norman kings. Through them central business could be conducted and localities controlled. Small wonder they were well rewarded. Roger established a dynasty which dominated East Anglia from the 1140s, as earls of Norfolk, until 1306. Roger's byname and the subsequent family name was derived from a word (bigot) meaning double-headed instrument such as a pickaxe: a tribute, perhaps to Roger's effectiveness as a royal servant; certainly an apt image of one who worked hard both for his masters and for himself. [Who's Who in Early Medieval England, Christopher Tyerman, Shepheard-Walwyn, Ltd., London, 1996]

1663582563. Adeliza (Alice) De TOENI Heiress Of Belvoir was born about 1070 in St Saveur, Normandy, France. She died after 1130 in Belvoir Castle, Belvoir, Leicestershire, England. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 8XQ5-HQ

[Child]

1663582564. Henry II Count Of LOUVAIN was born about 1021 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France. He died before 1079 and was buried 1079 in Cloister Of, St Gertrud, Nivelles, France. Henry married Adelaide Of ORLAMUNDA [Countess] about 1055. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 8JDW-R9

1663582565. Adelaide Of ORLAMUNDA [Countess] was born about 1031 in France. She died after 1086. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 9HM6-FC

Ancestral File Number: 9HM6-FC

[Child]

1663582566. Otto II Chiny De RAMERU Count was born about 1060 in Chiny, Luxemburg. He died 28 Mar 1125. Otto married Adelaide De NAMUR [Countess] about 1080. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 92D7-SR

1663582567. Adelaide De NAMUR [Countess] was born 1068 in Namur, , France. She died 1124. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 9HLT-4B

Ancestral File Number: 9HLT-4B

[Child]

1663582576. Ranulph De MESCHINES Viscount Of Bayeux was born 1050 in Bayeux, Normandy, France. He died 1129 in Bayeux, , Normandy. Ranulph married Margaret D' AVRANCHES about 1069 in Normandy, France. [Parents]

Name Suffix: [VISCOUNT DE BAY
Ancestral File Number: 91SN-6M

1663582577. Margaret D' AVRANCHES is printed as #831791325.

[Child]

1663582578. Turold Sheriff Of LINCOLN was born about 1015 in Coventry, Warwickshire, England (Mercia). He died before 1079 in Buckinghamshire, England. Turold married Alvarissa MALET. [Parents]

1663582579. Alvarissa MALET was born about 1045 in Graville, Normandy, France. She died and was buried in Only One Source For This Person/Relationship @Check Ancestry. [Parents]

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copied from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 10/7/98 11:43:15 AM, allenk@pacbell.net writes:

<>

If this is _not_ the case, I surely want to know. I do not have a copy at my office, but my notes say the marriages of Aelfgar are found in Faris, TPA, 140:8i, 191:9, 270:9ii, 210:8.  Also Weis, MCS, 4th ed., 12-11. Ist wife Elgiva, d/o Ethelred the Unready, issue: Agatha m 1) Harald 2) Griffith ap Llewelyn, Morkere, Bouchard, Eadwine. Wife 2:  Alvarissa Malet, d/o William Malet and Elise Crispin. Issue: Lucy, m Ivo Talyboys.

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor/ Publisher
THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

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also from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 9/30/98 12:38:45 PM, taf2@po.cwru.edu writes:

<< This little article by Katherine Keats-Rohan summarizes and builds upon a century's worth of progress on the issue.  While the "antecessores" clause is subject to some interpretation, this theory is preferable to the spurious and problematic Crowland charter. >>

I have received some wonderful information, both online and offline on this subject.

I see that everyone is tending to accept that Lucy is not Godiva's granddaughter and I appreciate the reasoning behind it.  Yet, two things puzzle me greatly and pull me away from this modern interpretation. One is the naming patterns in the following generations.

(1) 1 Leofric III --Lord Coventry, Earl Mercia, Leicester 1
 b. 0975, of Mercia, England
 d. 31 Aug 1057, Bromley, Staffordshire, England
& Godiva --Lady of Lincoln 2
 b. abt 0980, of Mercia, England
 d. 10 Sep 1067
 m. bef 1030
(2) 1a Alfgar III --Earl Mercia* 3
 d. 1062
& Alvarissa Malet
(3) 1a Lucy Talboys* 4
& Ivo Talboys --Earl of Anjou 5
(4) 1 William de Tailbois
 b. of Lancaster, England
& Margaret Tailbois
(5) 1 Goditha Tailbois/Lancaster & Gilbert de Lancaster --4th Baron Kendal

Notice that Lucy's granddaughter is named Goditha.  Why, if Lucy is not Godiva's granddaughter, would her grandchild be named after Godiva? It is such a common naming pattern. If Lucy's parents were Turold the Sheriff and a daughter of William Malet, as suggested by Katherine Keats-Rohan, there would be no relationship at all with Godiva and no reason for the name to appear in the person of Lucy's granddaughter.  I realize that the name is not spelled the same, but certainly it is the same name.

Neither Lucy's birth date nor death date are known. Leofric d in 1057 at age 85. Godiva died ten years later at age 87. Their son Aelfgar died in 1062, five years before her mother. If Lucy was 15 when she had her first child, she would have been born around  1047. She would have been only 19 at the time of the Conquest.  There are no chronological problems.

_The Complete Peerage_ says: "The link between Lucy and Aelfgar is the manor of Spalding, County Lincoln, which was held by Aelfgar before the Conquest and by Lucy's first husband, Ives Taillebois (in her right), at the time of Domesday. No close family connection between Aelfgar and Lucy is mentioned in any contemporary document, and chronology is opposed to the relationship of father and daughter. Moreover, the only known children of Aelfgar are Edwin, Morcar and Aeldgitha, wife of Harold, and consequently the passing of the manor of Spalding cannot be held to justify the inference that Aelfgar (a) was father of Lucy."

The second thing that bothers me is the land transfers.  It is the basis of the Keats-Rohan argument.  But if Lucy's father was Aelfgar III who married Alvarissa Malet daughter of William Mallet and William married the daughter of Thorold the Sheriff, then the naming patterns are consistent and the land transactions make sense.

Complete Peerage: "Other manors of Thorold which passed to Lucy are Belchford, Scamblesby, Stenigot, Tetney and Donington. (a) Lucy also held Alkborough, (b) which had belonged in the time of the Confessor to William Malet, (c) father of Lucy's uncle Robert Malet. If Lucy's mother was William Malet's daughter, this may have been her maritagium; and the fact that Thorold gave tithes in this place (d) has been advanced as evidence that he was her husband."

Though I accept that the evidence is unclear, I can find no more weight to one argument than the other.

- Ken

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor/ Publisher
THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

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also from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 10/7/98 2:32:24 AM, paul@pblay.force9.co.uk writes:

<>

There is more than one Thorold. I am willing to accept the traditional view that he was actually Godiva's father and sheriff of Lincoln as recorded by Faris in _The Plantagenet Ancestry_. After all the electrons 'spilled' here and all the ink 'spilled' elsewhere, this is still befuddled.

This is one of the last puzzles I was trying to conclude before actually printing THE ANCESTRY OF ELIZABETH OF YORK.  Marlyn Lewis, the compiler, has kept the ancestry along the traditional lines as recorded by Faris and Turton, i.e, Lucy's father is the son of Leofric and Lady Godiva. Even though some modernists believe that the Leofric connection is invalid, I still tend to think that it makes more sense than the alternatives, therefore I am solving the problem by noting that the connection is disputed and printing the traditional information anyway.

There are several reasons for so doing:

CP: "The link between Lucy and Aelfgar is the manor of Spalding, County Lincoln, which was held by Aelfgar before the Conquest and by Lucy's first husband, Ives Taillebois (in her right), at the time of Domesday. Other manors of Thorold which passed to Lucy are Belchford, Scamblesby, Stenigot, Tetney and Donington. (a) Lucy also held Alkborough, (b) which had belonged in the time of the Confessor to William Malet, (c) father of Lucy's uncle Robert Malet. If Lucy's mother was William Malet's daughter, this may have been her maritagium; and the fact that Thorold gave tithes in this place (d) has been advanced as evidence that he was her husband... the only known children of Aelfgar are Edwin, Morcar and Aeldgitha, wife of Harold, and consequently the passing of the manor of Spalding cannot be held to justify the inference that Aelfgar was father of Lucy. "

The Croyland Charter is dismissed because it is a late or forged charter--not quite contemporary--rewritten by the clergy to justify their possession of lands, as is the case with most forged charters. That does not necessarily mean that the genealogical information is absolutely false, but it does mean "stop, look and listen." Nor does that fact that Lucy was not mentioned as Aelfgar's daughter mean that she was absolutely not his daughter. The only daughter mentioned was Agatha (Aeldgitha) who married Harold II--killed at Hastings and she married a very famous figure. This is neither proof nor disproof that Lucy was her sister.

Regarding the confusion about the Lancasters, it seems that the monks were confused and had the wrong information. "To this the monkish chroniclers have added the fiction that he was the son of Ketel, son of Eldred, son of Ivo Taillebois (Mon Angl iii 553 & Cockersands Cartulary, Chethem Soc (New Series) xxxix 305), whereas he was almost, if not quite, contemporary with Ivo."

Richard Borthwick wrote:  "If Lucy had a son by Ivo, presumably he would have been heir to her lands and thence to the Lancaster family. From what I can recall this is not what happened." An answer may be that the son, William, died before his sister Beatrice. Then he would have been capable of inheriting only a very small (4x8) plot of land.  Beatrice,  married Ribald, the illegitimate son of Eudes. Also, Ivo had at least one--if not more--illegitimate children. William may not have been Lucy's offspring, but still a son of Ivo.

Faris has Aelfgar III married to Alvarissa Malet, daughter of William Malet.  Though Alfgar died in 1061, before the conquest, this marriage could still be valid. Their daughter, according to this reconstruction, was Lucy.

Though this scenario seems to make the most sense to me, it will likely never be proven. Neither will any alternative scenario be proven. For all the revisionist 'ink spilled', and all the trillions of rearranged electrons, no proof is obtainable now or in the future unless the future sees a major archaeological discovery. Therefore, one can let the emotional side have some weight ... and there is an emotional side:

Lady Godiva is one of the most famous of all women in the entire span of history.  The legend of her ride through the village stark naked on a horse has inspired adolescent boys to late night visions for a thousand years.  Each and every one of these boys have become the 'peeping Tom' who could not help but gaze upon that erotic scene.

If Lady Godiva is to remain in the historical record as a Plantagenet ancestor, then the scenario of her family connections cannot--and should not be--summarily discarded. To do so is a disservice to her memory and the fantasies of young boys  throughout the ages.

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor/ Publisher
THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

[Child]

1663582580. Henry I "Beauclerc" ENGLAND King is printed as #7342086.

1663582581. Edith FITZFORNE is printed as #1052270739.

[Child]

1663582582. Robert FITZHAMON Lord Of Thoringni & Tewkesbury was born about 1055 in Cruelly, Calvados, Normandy, France. He died 10 Mar 1106/1107 in At The Battle Of Falaise. Robert married Sybil De MONTGOMERY about 1084 in Normandy, France.

Robert Earl Of Gloucester, LOCIC, Govenor Of Caen. He Earl Of Gloucester, LOCIC, Govenor Of Caen. [Parents]

[From Burke's Peerage-see source for details]

An undoubted Earl of Gloucester, perhaps the first authentic one, at any rate after the Conquest, is Robert FitzHamon's son-in-law, another Robert, who was an illegitimate son of Henry I and was so created 1122. The Earldom passed to his eldest son, William FitzRobert, and from him to John, later King John and husband from 1189 to 1199 (when he divorced her) of Isabel, the youngest of William FitzRobert's three daughters.  On John's coming to the throne the title did not merge in the Crown for it was not his in his own right but in right of his wife.

[From Burke's Peerage-see source for details]

An undoubted Earl of Gloucester, perhaps the first authentic one, at any rate after the Conquest, is Robert FitzHamon's son-in-law, another Robert, who was an illegitimate son of Henry I and was so created 1122. The Earldom passed to his eldest son, William FitzRobert, and from him to John, later King John and husband from 1189 to 1199 (when he divorced her) of Isabel, the youngest of William FitzRobert's three daughters.  On John's coming to the throne the title did not merge in the Crown for it was not his in his own right but in right of his wife.

1663582583. Sybil De MONTGOMERY was born 1060 in St Germain, Normandy, France. She died Unknown and was buried in Abbey Of St. Grestain, France.

Sybil See Note Page. [Parents]

Facts about this person:

Alt. Born Abt. 1066
Ancestral File Number: V9V1-X5

[Child]

1663582584. Simon I Seigneur De MONTFORT was born about 1030 in Montfort-L'amaury, Yvelines, Ile-DE-France, France. He died about 1087 in Epernon, Normandy, France and was buried in Epernon, Normandy, France. Simon married Agnes D' EVEREUX about 1058 in Normandy, France. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 9HMR-DJ

1663582585. Agnes D' EVEREUX was born about 1040 in Evreux, Normandy, France. She died Dec. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: HPG9-KK

Ancestral File Number: HPG9-KK

[Child]

1663582586. Anselme (Anseau) De GARLENDE Ct Of Rochefort was born about 1069 in Garlende, , France. He died 1118 in Garlende, , France. Anselme married Beatrix De MONTLHERY about 1094 in Montlhery, Essonne, Ile-DE-France, France. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 8XQ8-ZK

Ancestral File Number: 8XQ8-ZK

1663582587. Beatrix De MONTLHERY was born about 1073 in Montlhery, Essonne, Ile-DE-France, France. She died in Rochfort, France. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: 924T-C6

[Child]

1663582588. Roger De BEAUMONT Seigneur De Pont-Audemer was born 1015 in Beaumont-Le-Roger, Eure, Normandy, France. He died 29 Nov 1094 in Preaux, Normandy, France and was buried in Abbey, Preaux, Normandy, France. Roger married Adeliza (Adeline) De MELLANT [Countess Of Meu on 1040 in Ile DE France, France. The marriage ended in divorce. [Parents]

[From "The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families"]The well-known Roger de Beaumont held Sturminster Marshal, Dorset, in 1086; it descended to the counts of Meulan through Roger's eldest son, Robert count of Meulan.  That Roger took his name from Beaumont is a part of the general history of Normandy.  It follows that Roger's descendants, the counts of Meulan, the earls of Leicester, and the earls of Warwick, all derive from Beaumont-le-Roger.

[From "The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families"]The well-known Roger de Beaumont held Sturminster Marshal, Dorset, in 1086; it descended to the counts of Meulan through Roger's eldest son, Robert count of Meulan.  That Roger took his name from Beaumont is a part of the general history of Normandy.  It follows that Roger's descendants, the counts of Meulan, the earls of Leicester, and the earls of Warwick, all derive from Beaumont-le-Roger.

1663582589. Adeliza (Adeline) De MELLANT [Countess Of Meu was born about 1014 in Meulan, Yvelines, Ile-DE-France, France. She died 8 Apr 1081 in Beaumont, , Normandy and was buried in Bec, , Normandy. [Parents]

Name Suffix: [COUNTESS of Meu
Ancestral File Number: 9G81-HS

[Child]

1663582590. Hugh 'The Great' CREPI [Count Vermandois- Duke Burgndy] is printed as #206471286.

1663582591. Adelaide De VERMANDOIS [Countess] is printed as #206471287.

[Child]

1663582592. Anchitil GRAI Of Rotherfield was born 1067 in Rotherfield, Oxfordshire, England. He died Dec. [Parents]

[Child]

1663582600. William Seigneur De VERNON was born about 1030 in Vernon, Eure, Normandy, France. He died before 1089. William married Emma FITZ OSBERN about 1055 in Normandy, France. [Parents]

Curt Hofemann, curt_hofeman@yahoo.com, wrote in a post-em:

A charter for Daint-Pere of Chartres, which was passed before 1061, and probably before 1053, show that at the time the family had then obtained full lordship of Vernon, together with its castle; and William of Vernon retained tis lordship until after the Norman conquest, his last recorded act being in 1077 when he made a grant to the monestary of Le Bec.  It is rare indeed that the origin of a Norman territorial family of the second class can be illustrated with this particularity from the independent charters of four religious houses. [Ref: Wm. the C., Douglas, p87

Regards,
Curt

1663582601. Emma FITZ OSBERN was born about 1034 in Normandy, France. She died. [Parents]

Ancestral File Number: V9TB-VX

[Child]

1663582602. William "The Elder" PEVEREL Of Nottingham was born 1050 in Normandy, France. He died 28 Jan 1113/1114 in Nottingham Castle, Nottinghamshire, England and was buried 5 Feb 1113. William married Mrs. Adeline (Nmn-William) PEVEREL on 1071 in La Marche Normandy, France, France. [Parents]

Complete Peerage, IV Appendix I.

Of William Peverel of Nottingham, the elder, very little is known.  He is usually said to have been an illegitimate son of the Conqueror, but as this statement cannot be traced farther back than to the time of the Tudors, it is worth little, or nothing.  His wife's name was Adeline, and he had at least four children -- William, who dvp., another William, who succeeded him, and two daughters, Maud, and Adelise, wife of Richard de Reviers.  The Conqueror gave him extensive possessions, afterwards known as the honour of Peverel, consisting of about 100 lordships in cos. Notts and Northants, 14 in co. Derby, and some 20 in cos. Bucks, Leicester, Oxford, Beds, Berks, and Essex.  He founded the Priory of St. James at Nottingham and that of Lenton in the same county.  In the foundation chater of the latter he stated that it was founded. . .  He died 28 Jan 1113/4.  [Complete Peerage IV:Appendix I, pp. 761-2]

--------------------

The following information was excerpted from a post-em by Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.com:

The claim has been made that William Peverel was a bastard son of William the Conqueror.  The source for this is an old pedigree in which Peverel appears to have been added to the family of William.  There is no other documentation which presents a relationship supporting Peverel's placement as a royal bastard (there are a few grants from the king, but there is no indication that these represent anything special).  In addition, William had no other documented bastards, which suggests that if he did have any, he didn't bother keeping track of them.  The more recent authors that I have seen have tended not to favor such a relationship as being accurate. [Ref: TAF 15 Nov 1996]

Derbyshire and the Domesday Book in 1086
  William de Peverel, the next major land holder in Derbyshire, was somewhat of a mystery. There are strong claims he was the bastard son of Duke William of Normandy in a relationship with Maud, daughter of a Saxon noble, Ingleric. Whether this lady was married to Ranulph? before or after the relationship is uncertain. The difficulty in the argument is one of timing. If he, William Peveral, appears in 1068 in charge of Nottingham Castle, he must have been at least twenty years old. That makes this liaison between Duke William and Maud somewhere around 1046 and must have been in Normandy. This is supported by both William and his half brother, Ranulf, both being of age, were recorded at the Battle of Hastings. Nevertheless, William Peveral became the holder of Nottingham Castle, and a further 162 lordships and manors throughout England and Wales, including the Peak Castle in Derbyshire, all granted by Duke William of Normandy. The grant almost blended the distinction of the two counties, Nottingham and Derby and courts of assize were held alternately between the two jurisdictions. The royal relationship of William Peveral was further clouded by Ranulph Peverel, legitmate son of Maud and Ranulph, half brother of William, possibly treated (theoretically) as a stepson? of the Duke, who, surprisingly, was granted 64 manors, almost as many as William Peverel (69 manors) in Nottingham. From Ranulph is descended the distinguished baronial family of Peverel and its many branches. William Peverel, on the other hand, married Adelina, daughter of Roger de Poitou (see Earl of Lancaster, and Lancashire and the Domesday, on this Web Site) and acquired, through her, many lordships in Lancashire, probably a few years after the Domesday around 1094 or soon after. when Roger died.  William was succeeded by his second son, William Peverel.

  This Peverel mystery could all be wrapped up with some small conjecture. Maud could have been a Saxon lady who was in the train of Edward the Confessor in his thirty year exile in Normandy, and, after the liaison with the Duke, Maud later married Ranulph, a Norman noble in Normandy.  This latter's background is unclear, but he must obviously have made the grade at the Norman Court. Hence, both half brothers were of age, and at the Battle of Hastings with the Duke. The Duke was not without favour to both.

William Peverel Holdings; Derbyshire 1086:  Abney, Bolsover Bradwell, Codnor, Glapwell, Hazlebadge, Heanor, Hucklow, Langley, Litton, Shirland, South Normanton, South Wingfield, Uftonfields [Ref: http://www.genealogyweb.com/Derbyshire.htm]

In 1086 the Doomsday book was produced and a publication on this book was produced (edited) by Thomas Hinde and published by Hutchinson, ISBN 09 161830 4... From page 338 it gives a list of major landholders and, on page 341

are two very intriguing entries :
Ranulf Peverel, married former mistress of William I (the Conqueror).
Holdings in Berks., Norfolk, Oxon. and Suffolk.
William Peverel. Perhaps illegitimate son of William I by his mistress; took name of Peverel from stepfather, who married her. Large holdings in Notts. and Derbys. Also in six other counties. [Ref: Leo van de Pas 1 Jan 2001]

  William Peverel is shown in Domesday People by Keats-Rohan as Willelm Peurel de Nottingeham, where it says of him, that there is no direct evidence of any relationship with Ranulf Peverel... but it is highly likely they were related and possibly quite closely. They both held lordships in west Normandy, Ranuld at Vengeons, Manche, Sourdeval, and William at "Turgistorp". He had a brother, Robert, and by his wife Adeline, he had issue two sons named William, of whom one predeceased him, and a daughter Adeliz who married Richard I de Redvers. He died 28 Jan 1113/14.

  Ranulf Peuerel was from Vengeons. His wife Athelida was a confrater of St Albans. Keats-Rohan refers to the "spurious account of this marriage, with Ranulf's wife converted into an Ingelrica, mistress of William I, as printed in Mon. Ang. iii, is unworthy of repetition". His successor was his son William, died before 1129/30. [Ref: Renia Simmonds 2 Jan 2001]

  "William the Conqueror" by David C Douglas, Yale University Press, New Haven and London 1964, reprinted 1999 makes no mention of any mistress or bastard children of William the Conqueror. Neither are the Peverels mentioned.

In case anyone is still curious about the legend, a discussion of William Peverel's parentage by the Victorian herald, J.R.Planche, is on Pat Patterson's site at:

http://patpnyc.com/reading.shtml
Planche actually defends the story that William Peverel was an illegitimate son of the Conqueror, despite its having already been rejected by "Eaton" (Eyton?), and by Freeman, "with contempt and indignation". The only sources cited for the story are post-medieval, and Planche's least tenuous piece of corroborative evidence seems to be that William Peverel, when founding a priory, made no provision for his parents' souls, but did so for the souls of King William and Queen Matilda, with other members of the royal family. (If anything, this seems to be an argument in favour of his being a "legitimate" son of the Conqueror!) [Ref: Chris Phillips 2 Jan 2001]

Name Suffix: [DE NOTTINGHAM]/
Ancestral File Number: 85BG-RJ

1663582603. Mrs. Adeline (Nmn-William) PEVEREL was born 1054 in Normandy, France. She died 19 Jan 1118/1119 in England.

Ancestral File Number: 85BG-SP

[Child]

1663582604. Drew De BAALUN was born 1025 in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England. He died Dec. Drew married Mrs. Drew 1025 De BAALON. [Parents]

1663582605. Mrs. Drew 1025 De BAALON was born about 1030. She died.

[Child]

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