FREDERICK PACE OF ???WALES???
The book PACE, YOUR FAMILY AND MINE seems to be widely known and contains the story that one Frederick Pace of South Carolina was born in Wales in the early 1700's. Bruce Howard doubts this story. Following is a series of queries and discussions on this topic.
-From: Steven Pace = scp@fiscal.tamu.edu
I have traced my background on the Pace side back to FREDERICK PACE (b. in Wales bef. 1860) and ELIZABETH ? using the "Pace Your Family and Mine" books Vol. I & 2. It goes like this:
Me: Steven Craig PACE, b. 6-9-1966 in Dallas, TX Wife: Dana Anne BARNES, b. 3-15-1969 in Houston, TX
Father: William Berg PACE, Jr., b. 10-29-1939 in Camden, Ark. Mother: Eva Lavern HARNER, b.3-27-1943 in Midwest City, OK
Grandfather: William Berg PACE, Sr., b. 6-13, 1919 in Camden, Ark. Grandmother: Ethel WILLIAMS
G Grandfather: William Samuel PACE, b. 1-29-1878 in Camden, Ark. G Grandmother: Mary Frances MOON, b. 4-4-1881
GG Grandfather: William Winfield PACE, b. 7-1-1848 GG Grandmother: Mary E. AVERA, b. 12-27-1849
GGG Grandfather: William PACE, b. 1807 in Kentucky GGG Grandmother: Sarah YARBROUGH, b. 1-6-1811
GGGG Grandfather: John Pace, b. 1760 Wales. GGGG Grandmother: Elizabeth Jones, b. in South Carolina
GGGGG Grandfather: Fredrick Pace, b. in Wales. GGGGG Grandmother: Elizabeth ?
I'd like to fill in the gaps here and continue to go back as far as I can. I would appreciate any help that you or any of the readers can give me.
Thank you, Steven C. Pace
To: Steven Pace = scp@fiscal.tamu.edu From: Bruce Howard
Steven: The man who wrote the book Pace Your Family and Mine was a fine old gentleman, just as many of the old members of the Pace Society were. It wont be many years before someone will probably say the same about me, who knows! But, he could never find the answers he wanted - no one could. My advice to you is to check the records of North Carolina and South Carolina for yourself. Be as diligent as you can possibly be in your search for Frederick Pace and when you find him let me know and I will send you my personal check for one thousand dollars. You know which one I am talking about, the Frederick who was supposed to be born in Wales and came to America with a wife Elizabeth and sons John, Frederick, William and Dempsey, those that turn up in Chesterfield County, South Carolina in 1800. Good hunting. Bruce.
Click here to go back to Steven Pace's query on the queries page.
Subj: R. Webb/ Pace lineages Date: 97-04-24 19:06:10
EDTFrom: bobwebb@firstnethou.com
(Bob Webb)
Roy;
Enclosed are my two Pace lineages, which I hope you can post on your lineages page. I've had a good time browsing through your website, which is very well done, as well as entertaining. The comments and discussions with Bruce Howard and others are a lot of fun. I've read queries pertaining to both of my Pace family lines, and would simply add my voice to theirs.
I am yet another inheritor of the book "Pace; Your Family And Mine" and would like to find out more about where these Paces came from. Your website has renewed my interest in this branch of my family history, so I've been busy lately, pouring over that book, county histories, census records and other data to try to confirm and add to the information it yields. I've had a little success, but nothing much to shed light on the Frederick Pace question.
Thanks, Bob.
Robert R. Webb 7010 Ferris St. Bellaire TX 77401 713.661.8356
Pace Ancestry A (Leila PACE Webb)
1. Robert R. WEBB Jr., 1954, b. Greenville TX
2. Robert R. WEBB Sr., 1922, b. Beaumont TX
3. Douglas R. WEBB 1893-1981, b. Blue Ridge TX d. Houston, lived
in Greenville. Leila PACE 1891-1968, b. Denison TX d. Greenville
TX
4. William John Lee PACE 1866-1929, b. Newton Co., MS d. Beaumont
TX Vernetta Jane Clark (1st wife) 1869-1941, b. Bell
Co., TX d. TX
5. John Micajah PACE 1838-1867, b. Newton Co., MS d. Newton Co.,
MS Nora Delaney MCCLENDON 1834-(1885?) , b. MS d.MS or
TX
6. Richmond PACE 1813-1892, b. Clarke Co., AL d. Bowie TX
Harriet ___________.(1st wife) 1820-1850s, b. LA d. MS
7. John PACE c1760s -1821, (b. SC, NC or Wales) d. Clarke Co., AL
Elizabeth JONES 1780-1854, b. SC d. MS
8. (Frederick PACE 17__- ?, b. SC, NC or Wales? d. SC?)
(Elizabeth________ 17__- ?, b. SC, NC or Wales? d.SC?)
The book PACE: Your Family And Mine; 1967, quotes three sources that have Frederick as the father of John PACE. Closer inspection reveals this to be 2 sources, as information in the Memorial and Biographical History of Dallas County, Texas; Lewis Pub., 1892 biography of Dr. Jesse PACE would have come from his father, William PACE of Arkansas, one of John PACE's sons. The quote taken from the Biographical and Historical Memoirs of Southern Arkansas; 1890, Goodspeed, is also from William PACE. Therefore William PACE is the only source that refers to Wales as the country of origin. The quote from T.H. Ball's book Clarke Co., Alabama And Its Surroundings; 1882, came from his research in that area with descendants of Dempsey PACE and his acquaintance with "Aunt Patsy" Martha Stringer PACE, then widow of Stephen PACE, eldest son of John PACE. Ball mentions a Frederick PACE of SC, but makes no reference to Wales. Children of John and Dempsey PACE that I could find listed in the 1880 census say their parents were born in South Carolina, as did Dempsey in earlier census reports. The 1880 census record for William PACE of Arkansashas nothing listed for the birthplace of his parents.
I believe there is probably something to the Wales story. Often, family tradition isn't wrong, it's just not accurate. Could be that a Pace came from Wales, just a generation or two earlier than William Pace thought.
From Bruce Howard:
As to William, John and Frederick being from North Carolina, that is true. But, I will have to tell Bob like I tell everyone, you're just going to have to wait until the book is out. I have devoted an entire chapter to that family and weaved the clues and facts throughout the chapter and it is a long and detailed matter that I don't have the energy nor the desire to rewrite by any means. I know that sounds hateful and probably selfish but you would feel the same way after putting years of research, months of study and hours of agonizing typing into the completion of that one chapter. Its like I have said before, I have confidence in my abilities as a genealogist and researcher. But, as a writer I leave a lot to be desired. Good heavens what a job!
Here's what I will tell you, Bob, there never was a Frederick Pace Sr., from Wales. It was a made up story. I suppose the only reason it seems to have come through the John Pace bunch is because they were the only one's who managed to get in print, and I'm talking about old Aunt Patsy Pace and William Pace of Arkansas. They are your two sources, but it was not their fault. The false information was given to them by their father.
(Bruce cites a similar case in his own family, where an ancestor made up stories to tell the children. I am as anxious as everyone else for his book to come out citing the sources on this matter.)
Subj: Frederick Pace of Wales? response to Bruce H. Date: 97-06-06 07:48:11 EDT From: bobwebb@firstnethou.com (Bob Webb)
Roy;
Thanks for posting the Frederick Pace/Wales page. I hope this helps clear up the mystery of this part of the Pace family's origins.
Bruce; I'm really happy to know you've given attention to this group in your book. There's nothing hateful or selfish about withholding the information at all; it's just that, as a baby-boomer, I feel like I'm entitled to immediate gratification. No, seriously, it's clear that the scope of your book is considerable, and I have a lot of respect for the time and effort involved compiling the research into a readable coherent whole. I'm lucky to get a half decent piece of e-mail composed.
Of course, your answer leaves me with some questions. I noticed you didn't mention Dempsey Pace and wondered if this was merely an omission or if he was really a son of the Frederick Pace listed in the 1800 census in SC, hence the connection to Frederick as the father in oral tradition. This would make John Pace an uncle to Dempsey, not a brother.
Which leads me to the second question. You stated there never was a Frederick Pace Sr., from Wales. Does this mean there was no Frederick Pace Sr., period? From SC, NC, or VA? And of course, the whopper, who was John and brother Frederick Pace's father?
A different kind of question is about the motive for the Wales story, and I don't think it can be answered, unless you have any clues in your research. Was this story invented for the publications that published the bios on William and his son Jesse to give definition and prestige to an origin that was, in fact, simply not known at that time? Was this story passed from John to his son William to mask some family breach? It does revolve around the Revolution and many families were divided by that conflict (The Darius Pace group comes to mind). If there is anything to this theory, John did name sons after Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, which would indicate his sympathies.
The made up story does represent a break with the past, rather than a bridge to it. I don't discount the possibility of a family feud (I have one in another line), or of some embarrassment the family wanted to hide. In any case, you have debunked the Wales story with confidence, and I look forward to reading about any answers you might provide in your book regarding my questions.
I sent Roy an e-mail regarding the John and Dempsey Pace families during the Creek Indian War of 1813-1814, and John and Elizabeth Pace's association with the Ulcanush Baptist Church near Coffeeville. I don't know if this is of interest to you or not, or within the scope of your book. My guess is that you are already familiar with the material about the Creek War. Good luck with the writing, and publishing. Keep me on your mailing list.
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