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Part A: Background and explanation
Part B: Documents regarding the John of Middlesex
Controversy
Part C: Questions and responses regarding this
problem
Part D: Queries from John of Middlesex
descendants.
First, the background: We have this Pace line rather clearly established and verified by historians and genealogists:
Seven children are listed for Richard and Mary: Richard Jr., Thomas, John, George, James, Elizabeth, Ann, and Sarah. Richard Jr. and some other family members (I am presently in the process of sorting all this out) moved to Bertie Precinct, NC, which originally joined Surry County, VA, on the South. Several records have been found in Bertie Precinct of a John Pace. His descendents believe he is the son of Richard Pace II.
The problem is, the descendants of a John Pace of Middlesex County, VA, also feel their ancestor was John, son of Richard II, and cite evidence in the Pace Bulletin in support of this conclusion.
I am a descendent of John Pace of Middlesex County, but I am a historian by profession (31 years a high school history teacher, with an M.A. and some training in original research) , and a seeker of historical truth. I am very interested in comparing the documentation for these conflicting claims, from an objective point of view, NOT from trying to "prove" my own ancestry.
I have most of the "proofs" on John of Middlesex from the Pace Society Bulletins. Here is an example, quoted word for word from PSB #8, June, 1968, by Mrs. Mehrkens, Editor:
In the article "The Middlesex Line" Mrs. Mehrkens gives the deed of 1693 in which John purchased land in Middlesex. This is the earliest record currently known of John. Then she goes on to say:
"It is quite likely that John Pace was just of age (21) when he bought this land. He was probably already living on it when he recorded the deed. He must have married around June or July of this year 1693. If John was 21 in 1693, he must have been born in 1672. However, his birth is not recorded in the Christ Church Register, which started as early as 1663. He may have been born elsewhere."
In other articles, the formula that the person was "just of age" when the first record was found is used to establish birth dates. For Joseph Pace, she simply picked a date of birth for him. There is no record. The dates 1672 for John's birth and 1693 for his marriage have been treated as rock hard fact in many family histories. As you can see, they are total speculation. "Must have been", "probably", and "quite likely" are not evidence.
From a historical point of view, there is not enough evidence to establish this claim. The evidence for John of Bertie Precinct seems to me to be stronger. Unfortunately, the lineage for John of Middlesex has been treated as proven fact, and has found its way into numerous family listings, including dozens of LDS submissions. This is bad genealogy and can only result in the perpetuation of unproven assumptions posing as verified fact.
As I expand this document, I will include the "proofs" that I discover on both sides of this question, and I invite anyone having any information to submit it.
This fact jumps out, and as far as I know, has never been addressed in the Pace Bulletins: ONE OF THESE JOHN PACES WAS NOT THE SON OF RICHARD II. SO WHO WAS HE? Obviously there is a line of Paces that we know nothing about at present. That line is either (a) a descent by a different line from Richard of Jamestown (i.e., Richard's son George Pace had more than one child, and we have no records on the others), or (b) a descent from an entirely different line of Paces, not related to Richard of Jamestown.
Roy Johnson, pace@surnameweb.org
Part B: Documents regarding the John of Middlesex question:
Response received to the question of John Pace of Middlesex:
Subj: Re: Unproved connection between Richard Pace and John of Middlesex
Date: 96-02-05 11:06:35 EST
From: jbwright@mailbox.syr.edu (Jay B. Wright)
Several years ago, using the evidence developed in the Bulletin of the Pace Society of America (and apparently accepted by Descendants of the Colonial Clergy), I applied for membership in the Jamestowne Society based on descent from Richard Pace through John Pace of Middlesex County. The application was rejected (letter from the Society's genealogist, 15 March 1991). The principal paragraph of the rejection letter said:
"There is no proof that John Pace of Middlesex County is the son of Richard Pace of Charles City County. I have examined the Pace Society of America Bulletin and the arguments for the connection are not sufficiently convincing to be acceptable. If Winifred Lane's letter is to be accepted, as has been done by Fred Dorman and other reputable genealogists, her mother knew her uncle John -- the man in generation 10 of your application. This lady would have been born ca. 1700-1710, well after your John was in Middlesex Co. Likewise, there are Newsoms in the Lancaster County area, a county neighboring Middlesex. The theory that Elizabeth Newsom was the daughter of Elizabeth Sheppard HART-NEWSOM-FOSTER seems less likely when one considers that the bequest of Mrs. Foster to her daughter was of clothing, usually a bequest for someone with whom one was living or in close proximity. Finally, if one accepts the John Pace of Middlesex theory this leaves unattached the John Pace who died in Bertie County [note: this apparently refers to Bertie Precinct, NC -Webmaster] in 1727. The latter is a much more probable descendant of Richard and could easily have been known by Mrs. Lane's mother, as they would have resided in the same county."
I don't know enough to disagree with the conclusions of the Jamestowne Society's genealogist, but I'd be very interested in knowing if you or anyone else has developed hard evidence about the parents of John Pace of Middlesex.
(Jay B. Wright, Professor, S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications
Executive Director, New York Fair Trial Free Press Conference
215 University Place, Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-2100
voice (315) 443-2381; e-mail jbwright@mailbox.syr.edu; fax (315) 443-3946
Part C: Questions and responses regarding this
problem:
Subj: John Pace of Middlesex Date: 96-06-15 23:13:40 EDT
From: chappell@bellatlantic.net (Ross Chappell) To: pace@surnameweb.org
Good evening Mr. Johnson: I read your comments on John Pace of Middlesex with considerable interest. I was particularly intrigued by your conclusion that the evidence for John Pace of Bertie Precinct seems stronger. For the benefit of us who have not researched this question, would you please summarize the evidence and dates that might support a conclusion that John Pace of Bertie Precinct was a son of Richard? Thank you. Ross Chappell
Date: 06/19/96 To: chappell@bellatlantic.net (Ross Chappell) From: Webmaster
I have not researched the question either, but have only looked at some of the existing research. I am a descdent of John of Middlesex, and there is a strong oral tradition in my family that we are descended from Richard Pace of Jamestown, coming down through several generations of rough, poorly educated Missouri frontiersmen and farmers who didn't know enough about history to make it up. However, I have come to question that John of Middlesex was the same John that was the son of Richard Pace II, and have concluded that the case is stronger for the other John, based on the evidence (not plentiful for either side) which I will cite. I would like to say also that I am a member of and a supporter of the Pace Society, but I have seen some submissions to the society which are pure speculation, but have been repeated so often that they have become accepted as fact and appear as fact in dozens of genealogies. The John of Middlesex - Richard Pace II descent is one of these.
From the Pace Bulletins, I have gleaned this evidence for John of Middlesex--I don't have all of it in front of me now, will try to get specifics later.
Bruce Howard has been working on a book on the early Paces, and I
am anxious for it to come out.,I have corresponded with him for
several years before getting him on line, and all the evidence he
has sent me has been "right on" when I checked it out. He is not
of my line, but when I first wrote him, he checked the files that
he has been building for 35 years, and sent me my lineage four
generations back from my great grandfather, which was all I had at
the time. It checked out to be 100% perfect when I checked the
census records. Many of the submissions I have seen are based on
"probablys" and "must have beens". Bruce insists on documentation,
and so do I. The important thing is not to accept my conclusions,
or anyone elses, until you see clear evidence.
Date: 96-06-21 11:22:06 EDT From: (Bruce A. Howard)
To: pace@surnameweb.org (Roy Johnson)
Roy: I read with great interest your transmission of the 19th inst. I will be quite interested to learn more about Mr. Chappell and his connection to the Pace Family. You did an adequate job of answering his question, which, no doubt, will give him something to think about for the time being. John of Middlesex did in fact have a daughter Mary. She was the oldest girl, named, it is my contention, for his first wife Mary. You see, John and Mary were the oldest children of John by his first marriage. The other children were by his second marriage to Elizabeth, who it is believed was a Newsome. I have no reason to doubt that she was a Newsome, but I have found no evidence to prove it either. However, if I were called on to make an educated guess, based on what I know of the early family, I would have to say that she was indeed connected to the Newsome Family and it quite likely that her maiden name was Newsome.
Also, Roy, be careful when you post the copy of Winifred Lane's historic
letter. There is more than one version running around out there that
contains slightly different wording. The original can no longer be
found so we are unsure of the exact wording. I have analyzed carefully the
three versions I have seen and have come to the conclusion that
the oldest version, published by Mr. Noble Pace, is more likely
the correct version and explain my reasons in detail in the
book which I am writing. Bruce Howard [All three
versions of the Lane Letter are posted on the Pace Network with comment
by Bruce Howard. Click here to see
them.]
Following is response from Ross Chappell:
Date: 96-06-23 00:30:36 EDT From: chappell@bellatlantic.net (Ross Chappell)
Thank you for message explaining why there is doubt about John of Middlesex being the son of Richard Pace. By coincidence, I first read your web page only a few days after accepting an invitation to join the Jamestowne Society. I had intended to base my application upon descent through John of Middlesex - so I was quite interested in the comments of the Society's genealogist regarding Mr. Wright's application. I am an active researcher, but have never researched the "Pace" family. I maintain a "Pace" file containing various odds and ends, consisting mainly of articles from the Pace Society Journal. Before reading your web page, I had supposed that the Pace family had been thoroughly researched and documented, and that all I would need do for my application would be to copy the necessary citations from microfilm at the VA State Library. Today (Saturday), I went to the VA State Archives to do a bit of research on John of Middlesex. There is much more to do, but what I found seems to indicate that John of Middlesex was, in fact, a son of Richard Pace. The case for this would be along the following lines: Richard Pace died in 1677, leaving a widow and children, at least some of whom were of minor age and would have remained in their mother's care. Richard Pace's widow married, WILLIAM BRISKOE, sometime before 2 SEP 1680:
2 SEP 1680 - Judgement granted Xtopher Foster non-appearance of Wm. Briskoe marrying relic of Richard Pace. (SURRY COUNTY, VA Order Book 1672-1682, p. 98) 20 SEP 1683 - Land Patent to William Briscoe, 12 acres, James City County. (Land Patent Book 7, p.324)
Sometime between 1680 and 11 NOV 1689, Richard Pace's widow (i.e., William Briscoe's wife) must have died. William Briscoe married next to Christian Petty of Middlesex County. 11 NOV 1689 - Wm Briscoe as marrying Christian Petty executrix of Maximillian Petty.
(Middlesex Co, VA Order Book 2, p. 427) 20 OCT 1691 - Land Patent to William Briscoe, 150 acres, Middlesex County, at fork of small branch issuing into Green Swamp. (Land Patent Book 8, p. 210) 7 AUG 1693 - John Pace buys 150 acres from HENRY NICHOLLS in Middlesex County. Land adjacent to ROGER PRITCHET. (Middlesex Co Deed Book 2, p. 588) 2 FEB 1694/5 - I acknowledge to have received of Mr. HENRY NICHOLLS full satisfaction for some land taken by survey away from Mr. Robert Chowning being near, or about, 8 acres and I do oblige myself to discharge them from any claim od the same. /s/ Roger (RP) Pritchet. Witness: WILLIAM BRISCOE and Robert Chowning (Middlesex Co Deed Book 2, p.10)
Note that William Briscoe (John Pace's step-father [assuming Richard Pace was John's father - webmaster]) witnessed a transaction involving Henry Nicholls (the man from whom John Pace purchased his first land) and Roger Pritchet (John Pace's immediate neighbor).
18 MAR 1699 - ROGER PRITCHET (no county given) sells 50 acres in Middlesex County to John Pace, of LANCASTER COUNTY. Land is adjacent John Blewfords, HENRY NICHOLLS, and ROBERT CHOWNING. /s/
Roger (RP) Pritchet Witness Edwin Thacher, (torn) Micham. Dower consent of Rebecca Pritchard (Middlesex County Deed Book 2, p. 286)
Note that the name of Robert Chowning also appears on the 2 FEB 1694/5 document witnessed by William Briscoe. There are many other references to William Briscoe in Middlesex County records. I only had enough time to note a few today. However, the presence of John Pace's [apparent - webmaster insertion] step-father in Middlesex County, and his transactions with John Pace's neighbors seems compelling evidence to me. After I returned home from Richmond, I searched through my Pace file but found no reference to Richard Pace's widow having marrying William Briscoe. Is this information new to you? Thank you again for your message. Ross Chappell
To: Ross Chappell From: Bruce Howard
Mr. Chappell:
I don't believe you are going to find the answer to what you so desperately need, you and many others, in the Virginia archives. Jack Pace and I have worked that place over, myself two or three times. I have worked over the following courthouses, Prince George, Dinwiddie, Charles City, Surry, Middlesex, Sussex, Brunswick, Lunenburg, Northampton, and I have records from several others, all in Virginia. It has been an on going, serious, project with me for over twenty years.
Here is the problem with John of Middlesex. There is no record, document, bible, etc., that says John Pace the son of so and so, or John Pace born at such a time and place. There is nothing like that and we are just going to have to live with it and accept it that way. That is not to say that there are no clues that help to solve the puzzle. I have several pieces of that puzzle, important pieces that I am working on that I am not going to discuss at this time. You see, I have put my foot in my big mouth in the past and had to eat bad leather. Don't want to do that any more.
By the way, before I leave that subject, John Pace Sr. did in fact have a family Bible. Who wound up with it I haven't a clue. Sure would be nice if it could be found, if it survived that is. I am sending copies of the different versions of the old letter history written by Winnifred Lane in 1791, by land mail, to our webmaster, Roy Johnson, with a few comments by me to be posted on the homepage, which, I have no doubt, will generate a great deal of discussion if not outright agitation on the subject. If you will accept a suggestion from someone who is knowledgeable on the subject, if you plan to use this letter as proof of some sort to join the Jamestown Society by trying to connect John Pace of Middlesex to it, I am afraid you will be disappointed. In fact if you so much as suggest that John of Middlesex is connected to Richard Pace to those people you will have wasted your time, money and effort.
More than one descendant of John of Middlesex has been rejected by the Society through their people who check out the applications. The burden is not on them, but on you. The problem is when their genealogist attempts to check out your allegations the first thing they look at are those darn Pace Society Bulletins published years ago when Mrs. Mehrkens was the editor. That's as far as they go, and you are rejected. Do not use the Aycock Lane letter.
You would do better to prove your line of descent back to John Pace of Middlesex and stop there. They already know that he existed. The thing I don't know at this point is what the requirement is for membership, i.e. how far back the ancestor had to reside in Virginia, or do they require that he had some connection to old Jamestown itself? I will have to ask you to take my word for it at this time, knowing that you have nothing else to go on except my word, that John Pace of Bertie Precinct, Albemarle County, North Carolina was in fact the son of Richard and Mary Pace of Charles City County.
It is my contention, and I will attempt to prove it to everyone's satisfaction very soon, that John Pace of Middlesex is the brother of Richard, and the son of George and Sarah Pace of Charles City County. This, however, may not satisfy the Jamestowne Society. They are inbued with the idea that if it is not in the Pace Society Bulletin, then there is no proof. This doesn't help right now, I know, but be patient. I am working on it. I have a lot of information, but I don't have all the answers. Some things, if they are done right, take time and study.
You might try making personal contact with someone in the Jamestowne Society and find out just exactly what they will accept as proof. I would really like to know. When you consider that so many of the ancient records of Virginia were destroyed from various causes during the early days and those that do survive were rather poorly kept, I have to wonder what is acceptable.
Bruce Howard
To: Ross Chappell
From: Bruce Howard Date: 7/15/96
Mr. Chappell: I realize I am not being much help to you in trying to make the connection of John Pace of Middlesex and Richard Pace of Charles City County. The truth is there are so few records on John that it is difficult to make a clear cut connection. I have a number of clues, all of which point to a definite, though somewhat sketchy, conclusion that he is a son of George and Sarah Pace and brother of Richard. I am not going to try to rewrite my manuscript here because it is too involved. I attempt to make this connection based on sound genealogical assumptions backed up by record evidence as everyone will soon see.
I am not sure if I mentioned to you before but Jack Pace of Williamsburg is rather closely connected to you. He descends from John, Jr., through William, through Spencer and Langston of Illinois. If I am wrong be sure and correct me. You may want to get in contact with him. His address is 128 Riviera, Williamsburg, Virginia 23188. He is quite knowledgeable of his ancestors and continues to work activelly on them. He is a retired executive from Reynolds and is up to his ears in genealogy. I know him personally and like him very much - a great guy.
He is planning another trip to the courthouse in Middlesex to try to find any clues that we may have missed earlier this year. We don't feel like we found everything although we spent almost a week working on John and his family in Middlesex and nearby counties. I wrote to him a few weeks ago and asked him to check into the Parish records of old Westover Parish which were supposed to have been deposited at the "Mother Church", which is Bruton Parish Church in Williamsburg, in hopes of finding some mention of George, Richard and John, etc., in the early parish records. He is working on that now.
It would be great if the two of you could coordinate your efforts to find some clue that will tie John, Sr., to the lower counties, especially Charles City. You see, it is my gut feeling that John, being a younger son of George, would only have been entitled to personal estate and had to make it on his own; that he went over to Northampton County to live with a young wife, named Mary, and his oldest son John was born there in 1661; that he worked as a carpenter during his early life, never being settled in one place or on land of his own; that he ultimately carried his family to Lancaster and then Middlesex where he purchased his own place in 1693 and spent his last years there. I think I can prove he was not a young man when he died, even though he had minor children at home when he died. And, by minor children I mean teenagers very near the age of majority. The answers are going to be in Middlesex and Lancaster.
His second wife, Elizabeth, has never been proven to be a Newsome, which is another area that needs to be worked on. Jack and I feel that his second marriage most probably took place in Middlesex or Lancaster after he came there to live. The early court orders for those two counties need to be carefully searched for a clue to the identity of Elizabeth. It will be a long drawn out affair, but if you are as good at research as I believe you are, you may be able to narrow things down rather quickly and come up with something that fits. You may also find working with Jack something to your mutual benefit. The decision is yours to make.
Bruce.
Quit-Rents - Ross Chappell "(By the way, the owner of the land was responsible for paying annual quit rent as a condition of the grant. Tenants and renters were not responsible for paying quit rents). "
Bruce Howard, 12/16/96
As to the Quit Rent Rolls of 1704, they have been completely misconstrued. The quit rents do not indicate ownership. The King charged rents on all lands in possession of a person whether they be owned or leased. I have seen a number of deeds during that time period in Virginia in which the lease agreement stated that the lessee was responsible to pay the quit rents as part of the lease agreement. I am not saying here that John Sr. leased a 50 acre tract and that is how he came to pay rents on 200 acres. You know as well as I do that many men of those times purchased land and never had the deed recorded for a multitude of reasons. If you can't think of any just let me know and I will give you a few.
Ross Chappell message 12-16-96
Regarding John Pace of Lancaster County - There was ONLY ONE John Pace in this part of Virginia. On 7 AUG 1693, John Pace of Middlesex Co purchased 150 acres from Henry Nicholls. In the deed, this land was described as being adjacent to the land that Henry Nicholls sold to Roger Pritchard. On 18 MAR 1699, Roger Pritchard sold 50 acres to John Pace of Lancaster County. The deed says this land was adjacent to Henry Nicholls. In the 1704 quit rents, John Pace is listed as owning 200 acres in Middlesex County (i.e., the 150 he purchased from Henry Nicholls plus the 50 he purchased from Roger Pritchard). So John of Middlesex is the same person as John of Lancaster. It is possible that John Pace was a resident (full or part time) of Lancaster County at times during the 1790's, but he was a resident of Middlesex County in 1701 when he is shown on a list of officers in the VA militia as being a Lieutenant of the Middlesex County Militia (PRO/C.O.5/1313).
Reasonable people can reasonably have different views, but I doubt the existence of the Lane letter. Is there anyone, now alive, who saw this letter in person? Can one absolutely discount the possibility that this letter was contrived by a frustrated researcher as a harmless means to document and prove what, to them, may have seemed a to be an obvious truth? However, I must say there is one part of the letter that is somewhat striking - namely the part about living where 5 counties come together. The only such place I could find in the eastern part of VA is Middlesex County. John Pace lived on Sunderland Creek, in the northwest part of the county very close to Essex County. Since 1692, five counties have nearly converged in that area: Middlesex, Essex, Lancaster, Richmond and King and Queen Counties!
I am not aware that anyone can PROVE descent from ANY of the three early Paces (Richard I, George, and Richard II). If such proof does exist, it would be a very useful thing for you to post on the Pace Web page. It seems to me that the contention that direction of travel towards the south tends to support a conclusion that John of Bertie was a son of Richard II is somewhat circular reasoning, i.e., it is based upon an ASSUMPTION that the other Paces in this area were all children of Richard II, and does not account for other possibilities or that there were TWO George Paces shown in the 1704 quit rents. (By the way, the owner of the land was responsible for paying annual quit rent as a condition of the grant. Tenants and renters were not responsible for paying quit rents). The contention about grouping of Richard Pace's children in Prince George Co also flies in the face of the documented implication in Charles City County Order Book 1676-1679, pg 287, that Thomas Douglas and (_____) Jordan were ordered to appraise the estate of Richard Pace on behalf of the ORPHAN (singular). To me, this reference means that Richard Pace had only one child - and therefore the Paces (plural) in Prince George Co and in NC were not his children.
[Webmaster's comment: I have never been able to figure this out. By that line of reasoning, when my minister mentioned "the apostle Paul", he was implying that there were no other apostles. Of course "orphan" is singular; Richard Pace is only one orphan. ORPHAN modifies RICHARD PACE and because he is singular, the modifier must also be singular. Grammatically it does not rule out the existence of other orphans any more than the singular form rules out the existence of other apostles. He could not be called "the orphans Richard Pace." Suppose another source is found which says "the orphan Richard Pace was granted the land and his brother, the orphan John Pace, got none". The singular would still be used even though there were two orphans. Analyze the grammar!]
Message 1-19-97
I am beginning to tabulate information on the Paces in Charles City County and in Prince George County. It would appear that the presence of two George Pace's on the 1704 Quit Rents does not quite exclude the possibility that they are son and grandson of Richard Pace (1640-1677/8), but their ages would fit better if the older George Pace on the 1704 list was a second son of George and Sarah Maycock. See attached file.
I have not studied the Paces of Charles City Co in detail, so I am somewhat confused by what seems to be conflicting records. For example, Richard Pace had died by 14 FEB 1677/8, when Mary Pace was granted administration of his estate. She had re-married to William Briscoe by SEP 1680. Yet patents issued 16 APR 1683 to Daniel Higdon and 20 NOV 1683 to John Williams, both indicate that the patents were for land adjacent to Richard Pace. This seems odd since Richard had been deceased for 5 years. Further, a deed dated 4 APR 1728, from Abraham Odium to Bernard Sykesin, (Prince George Co Record Book 1713-1728, pg 1090) apparently was for land adjacent to this tract of land owned by Richard Pace in 1683. The 1728 deed refers to the land of Richard Pace (apparently a Richard Pace owned this land in 1728). The question arises, were there two Richard Paces in Charles City Co in the 1670's, or was it Richard Pace (1640-1677/8) who was refered to in the 1683 patents? If the latter is correct, this could be a way to prove that Richard Pace (1640-1677/8) had a son named Richard. If the former is the case, it would seem to indicate that Richard Pace and Isabella may have had a son other than George. (I suppose a third possibility is that I have not studied these records sufficiently)
Jack brought up an interesting question about land owned by John and Joseph Pace, sons of John of Middlesex. I hope we can find information to pin down the answer to that question. Also, Jack indicated that someone had joined the Jamestowne Society by proving descent from Peter Mountague through Elizabeth Mountague and John Pace II. Do either of you know the parents of this Elizabeth Mountague, or the details of the proof? This information would be of considerable interest. Do either of you know who we could contact to inquire about this?
-9/20/96 - from Don Pace
For what it's worth, I read the material you have on the two Johns and add this little bit. Most of the material I have concerning the AMERICAN part of our family was sent to me by John R Pace of Archdale, NC, a fellow researcher from the DARIUS line. This information I received some 8-10 years ago, and it's interesting to note that Mr. Pace had JOHN as a son of GEORGE, as well as John, son of Richard II - exactly what Bruce is claiming. I have no idea of the source of his information, but know that John travelled the southern states as well as eastern Canada searching for his data. I fear he may now be deceased, as I have not heard from him for over 5 years, and he was quite ill the last few years we communicated. I know this isn't much, but I hold it out as a "carrot" for you to keep trying.
Regards, Don Pace Milford, Nova Scotia
Subj: John of Middlesex Date: 96-10-27 14:48:42 EST
From: Pat48084@aol.com (Pat Lundy)
Hi Roy,
Enclosed is my lineage and a query plus requirements for joining Jamestowne Society. I am like you interested in finding out the accurate information about my family. In Holtzclaw's article he showed by deeds that William Newsome Sr. had property known as "Sunken Marsh". William Newsome Jr. left that property in his will. How did he get it??? Was there a dispute over the land?
Query: I have been trying to join the Jamestowne Society through the Newsome line thinking it might be easier than Pace. :-( Not so.) I have read much of the family page and I wanted to send this information to those looking up the Newsome connection.
The first problem that I ran into was that John Pace and Elizabeth (Newsome?) are not on the migratory route. [NOTE: this apparently means that they did not follow the migratory route of the rest of Richard Pace's descendants; i.e., south to North Carolina and then on south and west from there - Webmaster] Mr. Hart finally allowed that William Newsome Sr. had property in Lancaster Co from deeds that I sent him. He sent me the following information--no sources. William Newsome transported as his fifth wife Margery in 1665. He died in 1668 leaving a will giving his estate to her and a son, Robert. This son married Frances ___ and they had a daughter Elizabeth so she could be John Pace's wife. Margery married Edward Carter. A 1636 deed shows that William Newsome had property next to a William Carter. Has anyone checked all deeds in Newsome's name and Carters', wills, petition of heirs, disputes by heirs, anything that might show the married name of William Newsome Jr. daughter Elizabeth??? William Newsome Sr. transported a number of people to the colonies and was rewarded with land. The following counties need to be searched--James City, Surry, Essex, Lancaster, Middlesex, Northumberland.
Pat48084@aol.com (Patricia Lundy, Troy, MI)
I noted that someone wanted to know the requirements for joining the Jamestowne Society. I have a Register of Qualifying 17th Century Ancestors--names of those early Jamestowne settlers whose service and/or residence has been approved by the Society Genealogist and membership committee. The person must be a descendant of stockholders in the London Co. And Virginia Co., and of descendants who owned land, had domiciles in or on Jamestowne Island prior to the year 1700. All Governors, Secretaries of State, members of Council of State, members of the House of Burgesses, Treasurers, Attorneys General and Auditors General, of the Colony, and Clerks and Deputy Clerks of the General Court prior to the year 1700 shall be conclusively presumed to have had their domiciles on Jamestowne Island during their term of office. If anyone wishes me to look up a name, I would be happy to do that. They update the register periodically. My E-Mail is Pat48084@aol.com
Webmaster note: Pat's lineage to John of Middlesex can be found on the Lineages page. Click here to go there.
2/97--Pat sent the following, and Bruce responded. This is material which might be useful to anyone interested in this subject, so I will paste it in here:
Hi Roy,
I will be going to Hilton Head in early May and plan to do some searching in Virginia concerning William Newsome, Margery Newsome Carter etc. Could you ask Bruce to contact me with some hints on where to look for deeds, disputes over property (since the 5th wife and only one son mentioned in will), guardianship records, anything which might show who Elizabeth Newsome (either one) married. Is his book ready yet?? One of my friends here is looking for Edward Carter's and Margery's will in the books she has here. I would, also, like to find the source that Lyndon Hart quoted for that will. He didn't give me a source?? Thanks. --Pat
From: Bruce Howard
Pat: Since you are going to Virginia to do research I would guardedly suggest that you go to Richmond and do your search in the archive, now called the State Library of Virginia. The reason I state it that way is because if you are not rather good at reading 17th and 18th Century handwriting you are probably going to run into the proverbial "brick wall" in research in Virginia. The library, however, has many of the early records transcribed in book form which will make it easier on you. I probably should not assume that you are inexperienced. You may be a heavy weight in the world of genealogy.
If so, then go straight to the microfilm section and pull the Court Order books for the time period you are interested in. For example if you know the year that a certain event took place, then start a year before and work forward. Be prepared to stay a while. Most of the Court Order books are not indexed, but if you suspect there was a dispute over some property that is where you will find the answer. If you are really lucky you will find that someone has already transcribed the order books in printed book form with an index. So far I haven't been that lucky.
Since I do not know what time period you are interested in, I am going to take a wild guess at the latter part of the 17th Century, early 18th Century, in Middlesex County. If I am close, you will also need to do the same in Lancaster County. There were lots of Newsoms in both counties during that time. Guardian records are going to be in the same order books. Deeds, however, are going to be in separate books and they will be indexed, so that you can run the index first and then go to the actual deed records.
I gather you are trying to determine who an Elizabeth Newsom married and when. It is going to be the nearest thing to looking for a needle in a hay stack, but if you have the time and patience to go through the order books you just might get lucky and find something. I found numerous mentions of marriages, guardianships, deaths, etc., in the Charles City County Order Books from 1650 to 1691, by going page by page, entry by entry, and it required a lot of time and eye strain but it was worth it in the long run.
A tip: even if you find something in a printed book, such as an abstract of a record, don't settle for that alone as your proof. Use it as a clue only. Go to the original record and make sure you have the full record, and especially make sure the abstract has been done correctly. It is okay to use an abstract form as long as you have checked it out and know it to be correct.
If you are more comfortable working in a courthouse, as I am, you can do the same thing at the courthouses with a lot less hassle in my opinion, but I would not advise you to research in a courthouse unless you are accustomed to it.
Good luck.
Bruce
Subj: PACE FAMILY Date: 98-01-01 23:44:19 EST
From: rclark107@HOTMAIL.COM (Ruth
Clark) To: pace@surnameweb.org
Dear Webmaster:
I recently discovered the PACE home page. I too am descended from John of Middlesex--lineage below. I am a professional genealogist a "retired member" of APGA and the Speakers Guild. Also immediate past governor of the Kansas-Missouri Company of the Jamestown Society. I joined several years ago on my FARRAR line not my PACE line.
I have some questions as well as some comments. First let me say I have not seriously researched the PACE line, however I have done some work. I always check the original records that I find in print. The comments regarding errors that were made in the PACE family bulletin are correct if you take time to go back to the original records. I am currently a member of the PACE Society. My first introduction to the Society about 18 years ago. It gave me info to check. I quickly found that the marriage of John of Middlesex to a Newsome had no documentation. Another error was that William married Susannah WEST daughters of John. From Joel military records we find he says his mother was WEST and he married an EAST. The will of John WEST in the original mentions his daughter many times--it is not Susanna but Luranna (this is the translation of others not mine)--I can only say it starts with an "L" not an "S" when you compare the scribe's handwriting of the entire will. Many other professional genealogists have checked this out for me when I researched at the SLC library and they have come to the same conclusion. So much for errors, we all make them.
I agree that Noble PACE's record of Winnifred's letter is probably the right one. I copied his book while in SLC some 20 years ago.
On the John of Middlesex vs John of Bertie NC--the two recent books published by the PACE Society give first John of Middlesex as son of Richard II and second John of NC. The most recent publication goes further to state that Richard III was the only son to go to NC--the other two who went were sons of James. The migration route theory is questionable when court records show that James, George and Thomas definitely stayed in Virginia--if you add John to that list you have only Richard going. The others were grandsons of Richard II.
As to the BAKER/KNOWLES conflict. I can find no documentation that Richard ever had dealings with the KNOWLES family. However, he does with Richard BAKER. Richard was a witness when there was a deed of partition between BAKER and JACKSON 21 January 1665 on the same day as the deed of gift to Richard of 140 acres bordering BAKER's plantation. JACKSON was a witness to this deed. At February court 1665 BAKER's will is offered for probate by his widow, Ann. The timing is significant. Genealogists say look to see who your ancestor is in court with--actually Richard is in court with Richard TAYLOR as often as he is with BAKER. There is the record in the summer of 1664 (I believe it was August but can not remember for certain without checking my files.) when upon on the confession of Richard and John ROSSER, BAKER is released from his bond for the said orphans estates and is consequently dismissed upon the confessions of said orphans. #1 Was BAKER's wife a PACE? Baker was not a tutor. #2 Why did Richard chose William BAUGH as his guardian? #3 Was BAUGH's wife a PACE? I am related to BAUGH as his granddaughter Priscilla married William FARRAR so have researched his line. I do not know the name of his wives. He was a justice and so mentioned often as being present when court met. #4 Why did Richard say his mother's name was Mrs. Sara Maycock? In those times that would indicate a previous marriage.
I am of the group that feel that Isabel SMYTHE was the "strong" one of that marriage. I suspect when we find her parents we will find that their passage to America was paid by her father.
My lineage Ruth Virnita KEYS m. Harry Mead CLARK Jr. Ross Bartley KEYS m. Lola Mae SLOOP John SLOOP m. Rosa Alice HUGHES John Samuel HUGHES m Elizabeth MILLER William I HUGHES m Mahala RODGERS Abijah HUGHES M. Susannah PACE Captain John PACE m Elizabeth NUNN (Captain John is my notorius ancestor--competing with William FARRAR and Cecily JORDAN in the first breech of promise suit in US.) William PACE m. Susannah WEST William PACE m. Elizabeth MONTAGUE John PACE m. Elizabeth ______________ Richard PACE m. (Mary BAKER ?) George PACE m. Mrs. Sara Maycock Richard PACE m. Isabel SMYTHE
This is far too long. Thanks for listening.
Ruth Keys Clark PO Box 153 Winchester, KS 66-07-0153 913 774 4411
Jacl Pace of Williamsburg, VA, writes to Ruth Clark:
Subj: Pace Date: 98-03-06 22:43:37 EST From: jackp5@juno.com (Jack Pace) To: rclark107@hotmail.com
Rec'd your data base and like the approach. I believe I can add to it and will do so when time permits.Really interested in Rev. Benjamin Pace. 1783 Sarah Campbell will - he is to preach her funeral. Also 1898 He is paid $17.00 for preaching funeral of Sarah Campbell. ( this is 15 years after her will). 1798 rites for Mrs.Sarah Campbell. 5.2.0. K&Q. Is this 5 lbs 2 pence 0 shilling? [Webmaster's note: Probably 5 lbs 2 shilling 0 pence, as shillings are greater than pence] There was a Pace Church in K&Q and it was the oldest M.E. Church in the County. (Bulletin 4:7, King and Queen Historical Society) The bricks from the abandoned church were used to build the M.E. Church in Tappahannock Virginia. In the diary of Joseph Westley Shackford by Joseph S. Johnson it states that Shackford preached at Pace's. The church was used for trials after the Yankees burned down the Court House. I have no record that Benjamin Pace was a Rev. and I would like to follow this up. Benjamin the son of John of Middlesex went to King & Queen along with his wife Mary (Last name unknown) and their four children. CCPR lists Elizabeth, Joseph, Mary and Ann. The Pace Society then adds Benjamin, dob 1781., Williamson (Wm) who married Crissy Sanders, and Reverend John who was born 12, Aug. 1764, who with his family, ended up in Kentucky. This funeral took place in abt.1798 The Benjamin who PSA said was prob. born in K&Q would have been born abt.1760. he would fit and he married Francis Williamson who's father was Samuel and Mother was Francis Davis ( I have no proof of this) . I have no record that a Benjamin Pace was a minister and would like to make the connection. George Sanders, Crissy Sanders father was George and he named her two sons, George Sanders Pace and Benjamin Row Pace in his will (SEP.26, 1786) Williamson (William) was mentioned as father of boys,in Sanders will but dau Crissy was not mentioned. A Benjamin Pace owned 563 acres in K&Q in 1764. Williamson (William) died of small pox in( I think Yorktown) during the Revolution and one would assume Crissy was also dead at the time of her fathers will. The Family of George Sanders Pace is well known in the history of Lancaster and Middlesex Counties Virginia. In fact the Bible record in the Pace Netwrk Pace is along this line. Roy sent me a copy but I need to spend some time with it. Also the Anniversary Book of Middlesex has several references to this family. I see your source's are Christ Church Register, Va. Colonial Abstracts and C&P can you tell me what C&P stand for. Roy Johnson is also interested in this line and you will note that I have copied him for his info and input. The source for the fact that Benj. and family moved from Middlesex to K&Q is "A Place In Time" I forgot the authors, but it is a book on Middlesex County during the period that John Pace lived there. Jack Pace Wmsburg Va.
Subj: Re: John Jr. and Elizabeth Montague Pace and other Materials. Date: 98-01-04 23:33:53 EST From: jackp5@juno.com (Jack Pace) To: johnyreb@concentric.net CC: pace@surnameweb.org, PRochette@juno.com
Bruce good to know that the Dixie Reb is well and kicking. I think I will include a couple of other people so that we might get a dialog on Middlesex going. First about the subject : I refer you to Page 135, 136 0f Pace Family 1607-1750. Quote" Though landless , John ll must have been a personable young man, for he married into one of the foremost families in Middlesex. His wife was Elizabeth Mountague, dau. of William and Lettice (Weeks) Montague. This, if true, can be tied to Geo.Washington's mother. John and Elizabeth were married in Middlesex 24, Oct. 1717. C.C.P.R. and two of their children are also registered. #1 Mary Pace 23, July 1731 an d #2 Abraham 23, July 1733. C.C.P.R. How can one explain that no children were recorded until 14 and 16 years after their marriage? The book goes on to say that two other children were born but not recorded (1) John lll and William. We can prove through court records that a William Pace, orphan of John Pace was bound out to Robert Pierce for the purpose of learning a trade and to read and write. A year later the court issued an order that William be turned over to Pierce an d that John White deliver him. Listed in C.C.P.R is the marriage of Elizabeth Pace to Jon White (15,Sept.1735) prob the same Jon White that was ordered to turn William over to Pierce . Also a court record shows that a William Pace deeded to John White ( 1, July 1745) 200 acres that William had acquired upon his Father John Pace death as heir apparent for his father left no will. Court records also prove that John Pace and Joseph Pace had land dealings and that John Pace also had dealings with Robert Williamson on a lease and release basis where John"s wife Elizabeth gave up her bounding rights. So you can see that John Pace and his wife Elizabeth ,who married John White, who purchased 200 acres from William his step son, is tied up in a nice neat package. My problem are the two children listed in CCPR who were born 14 and 16 years after the marriage of John Pace and Elizabeth Mountague. It appears that there should be a record of other and especially earlier births, especially when you consider that the first child was usually born a year after marriage and if Mother was healthy there was another every 18 months or 2 years. This leaves a void in 1719, 1721, 1723.1725,1727,1729, Mary 1731 and Abraham in 1733. If William and John were part of this family it would eliminate 2 of those dates. Which two are a guess. we know that a Elizabeth Pace married a Jon. White. This wedding shows a Banns which means it was posted on the Church Door for several weeks, the cost of the wedding was cheaper if Banns, If Elizabeth were a Mountague it seems odd that this practice would be followed. Other side issues: CCPR p. 36. Mr.Matthew Lidford and Lettice Weeks Marry 6, Jan. 1691/2. CCPR p.29 Mr Matthew Lidford (Our late Minister) died 22, Mar 1692/3 I can not find any other info on Matthew Lidford in Middlesex Co.Va. I can not find any other info on Lettice Weeks Lidford in Middlesex Co.Va. It was my understanding that marriages were normally conducted in the home county of the bride. If Lettice Weeks Lidford married a William Mountague as stated p 135 Pace Family 1607-1750 Also reviewing CCPR Joseph White son of John and Elizabeth born 5, June Bapt. 22 Aug. 1736. Also Francis White Dau of John and **** born 5 Dec. 1742 . Also Slave (Dick) belonging to John White born 1, May 1740. So it appears possible that John White and Elizabeth Pace did have children. A very interesting note is that children born to parents who were not married in the church were listed in CCPR as Illegitimate. Some children were listed as bastard. I also note that when a marriage is made from persons outside of Middlesex it is so noted. I need help in proving that Elizabeth the wife of John Pace, father of William Pace was in fact a Mountague. That the John Pace and Elizabeth who born children Mary and Abraham were the same parents who born John lll and William Pace. Is it possible that two separate John Pace's with a wife Elizabeth were in Middlesex at the same time. ? It's getting late and I'm going to leave this for your thoughts and reply. (Excuse Typos) Jack Pace..Williamsburg
Subj: John of Middlesex book Date: 98-01-14 13:54:49 EST F
rom: amoss@sunline.net (Arlina C.
Moss)
Roy, are you aware of the book entitled PIERCE, PACE, HALL, MINTON AND
HUIE FAMILIES by Virginia Copeland Jantz, 1985, Waco Printing and Stationary
Co.,Waco, TX. This book I saw at the Lloyd House in Alexandria, VA, but
understand it is also at the VA Archives and Library in Richmond, VA. It
concerns the family of John of Middlesex carrying it to Goochland, Amelia
and through Mecklenburg Co., VA to NC. If you have seen it or any of your
viewers, I would appreciate the pros and cons of the data. Thanks, Arlina
< amoss@sunline.net >
Queries from John of Middlesex descendants
I am a descendent of Mary PACE (1704 - 1742/43) who was married to Ignatious TUREMAN (1701 - 1784). I think her father was John PACE (1661 - 1719/20) and mother was ?Elizabeth NEWSOME?. If this is true, which PACE is John's father - John PACE SR. or James PACE SR.? and what is the ancestry back? I have been reading the info from the page (fascinating stuff) and am unable to figure out who belongs to who absolutely (and is that EVER really possible?)
Thank you Margaret >>
Just got down to your query--will do some checking--the John Pace that you cite as her father was John Pace of Middlesex (see the controversy on the Pace page about him). His wife was Elizabeth someone, but there is NO PROOF WHATEVER that she was a Newsome; that was made up because she named a son Newsome Pace. His parentage is unknown--wish I did know; he is my ancestor also. Most agree he was either a son of Richard Pace ("Richard II") or a brother. "Richard II" was a grandson of Richard of Jamestown; that's why I put it in quotes, since you usually have to be a son of someone to get a roman numeral II, but many in the Pace society call him that.
I trace through Joseph, a brother of your Mary.
Ok, I just checked the book "The Pace Family-1607-1750" from the Pace Society--full of inaccuracies but some good stuff if you know how to sift it. It gives the children of John Pace of Middlesex as follows:
Sarah, John, Joseph, Benjamin, Margaret, Mary born 7/23/1704, died 3/12/1743, married Ignateous Tureman 9/26/1731. Jane, Newsome, William, George.
John's will, probated March 7, 1720/21, left the following to Mary;
"I give my daughter Mary at her day of marriage the new narrow striped bed with one blanket with curtains and valances thereto belonging."
((Looks like she had to wait ten years to get that bed and the other stuff, by the date of her marriage.))
I gave the specific dates for only your Mary. To say the mother was a Newsome just because she named a younger son Newsome is to me sheer speculation. People name sons for friends, respected people, all sorts of reasons.
Might be a good idea to buy this book from the Pace Society. It is advertised on their home page, which you can get to from the Pace Page. If you are not a member, it's worth the 15.00 to join.
Regards, Roy