Emails From Barra and Charles McCain About Group 2 Connections to Leck Parish in Ireland

May 14, 2008

To: Barra

Have a great time! If you get close to Cavan County, perhaps you can find out more about Alexander McCaine, etc.

Charles McCain, Group #2

May 18, 2008

To; Barra

I realize you are preparing for your junket to Ireland , but we in Group #2 need a bit of information before you go.

On several occasions you have told us that we are related to Thos. McKean the signer of PA. Since Chester County is close to where many McCains originated (namely Hugh McCain, Group #1, I am wondering the source of your statement.

If your source is a DNA test, who is the person, and where is the DNA chart with all those markers? I tried to get on the new Ulster website, and I still can't get anything out of it. I don't care how large the file is; the point is that most personal computers can handle even files of 500 MB without having a problem (I taught computer information systems in college for 15 years). We want access to the chart showing a McKean kin to McCains, Group #2. We are all searching for that link between the two families.

I hope you can respond to this request. As it now stands, there are only about three of us left in Group #2 who are doing any significant research because of the lack of information seemingly available.

Charles R. McCain - Denison, TX

May 18, 2008

To: Charles

Charles, the source would be three men who are descendants of Thomas McKean did the DNA test, all three matched group 02.  It was a surprise to pretty much everyone; we assumed it would be group 01 because that is the history normally given by the family of Thomas McKean.  The group 02 has links we know to Limerick town, County Limerick.  I think a lot of their history as posted on the internet on Thomas McKean is certainly wrong.  The family is as you know related to Alexander McCaine, who was an Anglican priest and then convert to the Methodist Church after he immigrated.  You have both Virginia in Cavan and Limerick as confirmed on group 02, so that really needs to be researched.  I expect there are still McCains there from group 02.

I will ask Jim about the viewing problems, for most computers the results table comes right up.  I just checked it out and it loaded pretty quickly for me.  Let me see what Jim says.

Barra

May 18, 2008

Hi Everyone:

I have been busy looking over the FTDNA site to find more Group #2 members. There are few of us with DNA test, but I found a list of those who are supposedly matched TO ME which is something. I am attaching it for your edification. It is a TIF file, and I hope you can open it.

If any one of you wish to contact any of those matches via email, be my guest. Robert McKean is kin, and that may be the match Barra was telling me about (pardon ending the sentence with a preposition). John Nolon McCain told me early on that he was more a historian than anything, but he may be able to offer a clue or two. I don't know the last match, John William Coyle, Sr., but who knows what he could offer. If any of you do contact any of the matches, please CC a copy to the others (see this email at top of message), and ask the recipient to do the same. I'm fresh out of ideas right now.

Charles R. McCain

Note: I could not open Charles' file. It was the McCain FTDNA Results Page. You can view the Page by clicking HERE. Scroll about a third of the way down the list and you will come to the "02 McCain Family". That is us. It is a very large file and may take a minute or two to load.

May 21, 2008

To: Elinore, Elsie, Jim, Barra

Subject: Looking For McKeans

Just for drill, for the past two weeks I have been trying to find more about the family of Thos. “The Signer” McKean of PA.  I have to admit, I have failed for the most part so far. And I have no prospects for future investigation.

Somewhere along the line, some researchers have badly convoluted or corrupted the information on this wonderful family. Evidently a few “amateur” researchers have confused a William McKean (called “Justice” McKean) for a Thos. McKean family member (grandfather). This is not true. This William McKean went to New Hampshire. Thos. McKean’s grandfather was born in Ireland before 1690 and died in Ireland (date unknown). He married Susanna (birth name unknown).

Thos’ father, William McKean, was born in Ireland in 1707 and died in 1769 in Chester County PA (PA records reflect that fact). He married Letitia Finney.

There is no official record of either Thos’ father or grandfather having a child named James. There may be one at the great grandfather level. One researcher says Thos’ great grandfather’s father was a “John/James McKean.” Since I do not plan to drop a few hundred dollars to some Irish researcher to find out, it will remain a question mark for me.

If Barra is going to be in Ireland this year, it would be a big help to Group #2 if he could uncover this fact for us. But I hesitate to ask because he is mostly interested in Group #1, his group. If he knows an ethical researcher (that may be an oxymoron) in Ireland who will give fair return for funds expended, then I may be interested in going that route. IF our line (Group #2) IS really related to the McKeans, the connection has to be in Ireland before the McKeans came to America. Also, if Alexander McCaine (Cavan) is also related to us, the McCaines are also related to the McKeans (I think). I would like to find the intersection of these families so we can go on with the business of finding the parents of James McCain of Clay County Alabama. We obviously are at a tall brick wall trying to find his parents with documents in America.

So I have really reached a serious road block in this quest. If we can’t find a way to go around this problem, then I see no future for even wasting our time looking further.

Charles R. McCain

May 22, 2008

Email From Charles

I have been discussing our plight to make ancestry connections in Ireland since Barra plans to go there this year. He has passed on the information below:

Charles R. McCain

*******************

Email from Barra to Charles:

There are a couple of genealogies posted on him [Thomas the signer McKean], trouble is they are dead wrong [amen]. I think you can get as far back as his mother safely.  They are not connected to that large group of Donegal and Antrim McCains however, but are connected to the Cavan and Limerick McCains of Alexander McCaine and his son. If they are from the Limerick area, their name is likely Mac Catháin, Alexander McCaine was born in Limerick.

The best route to me is to publicize the hunt for the people of Alexander McCaine in Cavan and Limerick. That’s how the 01 group became aware of their real history, we went to Antrim and had the local McCains test.

If you find Alexander McCaine’s roots Thomas McKean will not be far behind, as the men are cousins.

This goes against all the published histories of Thomas McKean, but keep in mind those are All Wrong. They all grafted onto the 01 McCain family, just as the 01 McCain family grafted onto that Clan Donald McCain story.

I can get the ball going for by published an short article in the Ulster Heritage Magazine, but then you all need to go to the Limerick and Cavan counties’ genealogical websites and post the name of McCaine, McKean, etc., explain how you are hunting for descendants for information and to do a DNA test.

Charles, please circulate this to the other McCains in your group.

Barra

P. S. I forget, don’t forget to research the Finney name.  He’s why I think you will find something, Alexander McCaine was an Anglican priest before he converted to the Methodist Church.  There will be records on him.  We know he as in Limerick and his dad was in Virginia, County Cavan so there are records out there. They wrote letters to each other, you have names and locations, that’s as good as it gets.

*******************

Charles' answer:

I found Letitia Finney's parents somewhere, and I think there is much more out there with some real intense research.

I think we can all benefit if we use this information by trying to glean data from these sources Barra provided. Our leadership in this endeavor is limited, so I wish all of us good luck. We'll darn sure need it.

Charles R. McCain

May 22, 2008

To: Jim

I hope you got my last email about Barra's suggestions on tracing our ancestors in Ireland. Would you please place it on your website so Group #2 members can see it? I don't know all of them. I hope they see the email. You can put my email address out if you wish. Or yours if you want to coordinate responses. Somebody has to get this damned ball rolling. Who knows? We may actually find something if we look hard enough in Ireland. God help us, there doesn't seem to be any records of any use in this country!

Charles R. McCain - Denison, TX

May 23, 2008

McCain List Server:

A note to all group 02 McCains, I found an odd reference that says the family of Thomas McKean the Signer was from Leck Parish, Donegal. I suggest you jump on this like a duck on a June Bug.

Now this could be the Finney connection, or his McKean side. Don't know. There are letters that T McKean wrote supposedly that comment on his origins and mention Leck Parish.

That is in the far north, would have been all Gaelic speaking there in 1705. The group 01 McCains were to the south of there in the Finn Valley.

Cheers

Barra

Note: I will be happy to publish online any comments that anyone has on the above Emails. While it may be some time in the future, I plan to publish my thoughts on the matter.