PUZZLE PIECES REGARDING RELATIONSHIP OF ROBERT PERRIN ASHLEY, THOMAS ASHLEY AND LADOVE ASHLEY et al The following is a summary of the various emails I have received (or received copies of) relating to the possible/probable relationship of LaDove Ashley, Robert Perrin Ashley, and Thomas Ashley (and thereby to the descendents of William Ashley). It is helpful to me to consider such if I can lay them all "on the table at once". After 2/14/2000, newest additions are at *top* of the listing, and are dated. ======================= From "Some Ashley Marriage Records" (see main menu) you see: Ashley, Moses spouse: Nancy A. Newley Marriage date: April l8, l847 Benton Co., Al [Could this have been "our" Moses, and could this have been the Nancy shown as age 28 in his home in the Greene Co. AL census in 1850 (3 years before his recorded marriage to Nancy Lay in Greene Co., following). If so, she would have been the mother of Joseph rather Pamela. This is but 3 years before Delila, Sion and Samuel showed up on nearby Talladega Co. Census. Wm. R's will showed Samuel as resident of Benton (Calhoun) Co. in 1852. -jr] It is really beginning to appear that Moses married (1)Pamela Mitchel, (2)Nancy Newley (3)Nancy Lay (4)Ann R. Leigh(Perrin?) [John Robertson 2/15/2000] ======================= I also have some concerns about Nancy Lay. As you know, the 1850 Greene County Census has a Nancy Ashley in the household of Moses Ashley.This Nancy Ashley's birth date is listed as 28 years of age on this census. Also on the l850 Greene County Census, there is a Nancy Lay listed, and her age is listed as 18. Then there is a marriage record listed in l853 in Greene County for a Moses Ashley and a Nancy Lay. On the l860 Greene County Census in Moses Ashley's household there is an N. R. Ashley listed, and her age is listed as 28 years of age. If this was the same Nancy Ashley that was listed on the l850 Greene County Census, her age should be 38. Twenty Eight would be the correct age for the Nancy Lay that was listed as l8 on the l850 Greene County Census. N. R. Ashley is Rebecca M.'s mother. Perhaps the R. stands for Rebecca. and she named Rebecca M. for her. [Nettie Carl 2/14/2000] ====================== NOTE: Comments listed below were gleaned from our various emails to each other prior to 2/14/2000. From this point forward, newest comments will be added at the top. [John Robertson] ======================= [Jackie] has a Thomas Ashley in her line. Her family is also from Alabama. Thomas had a brother Robert Perrin Ashley. They lost contact with him when he moved to Texas. He had a wife Elizabeth Ann and 5 other surnames. The last they heard of him he had 3 children. Guy, Dove another girls name. All 3 names match 3 of mine. She said he had other kids but they were living with someone else. There were similarities between him and my gr grandfather. But my father believed there could be a connection but his gut instinct told him that wasn't his grandfather. Here is why: 1. His grandmother was not married 5 times 2. He remembers having two great uncle's Tom and Bob 3. Even though he couldn't remember his grandfather's name he just knew it wasn't Tom or Bob. 4. He remembers the name being unusal. [In] my Kirby line [is]where I got the DAR application and when I found out LaDove's and Moses name. ... [Troie Wilde] ======================= ...Now when my father was a child he remembers an uncle Tom and uncle Bob. [Troie Wilde] ======================= Robert was said to have had tiff with his family and moved to Texas. He took his wife and moved to Texas. The last the family heard was those 3 names... His wife name was Elizabeth Ann and she had been married 3 or 4 times before marrying Robert. This brings up a lot of questions. Was LaDove married more than once? Guy was born last so why would they know about him and not all the rest. I know at one time the children weren't all together at once because my grandfather talked about visiting his sisters when he was little and they weren't all full grown. [Troie Wilde] ======================= ...the "other ASHLEY" family tradition abt Robt Perrin's brother... "...RP Ashley's mother was supposed to have been married 5 times. Her family had a plantation in or near Mobile, Ala. RP had a brother named Thomas 'Tom' Ashley;. Tom had a son named 'Guy', supposed to be living in Pampas, TX, & maybe another son named 'Dove' & daughter named 'Ruby'" and the memory that his mother was a "LAY"...
[Jackie Pace] ======================= Is there some confusion about which Ann was supposed to have had multiple marriages (Ann R. Leigh/Elizabeth Ann Ashley)? See two previous comments. [John Robertson] ======================= Another Robert Perrin' clan tradition: Tradition, "Pink Ashley", from MARY A CHERRY, RR 1, Box 92, Gandao TX & dau Marie Becker- 4/Mar/1993: "Robert Perry Ashley's body slave was named Pinky Ashley. He left Anston, ALA with R.P. & was given freedom in Liberty, TX. Last contact with him was in 1932 in Brazos Bottom (close to Brazoria, TX)." [Jackie Pace] ======================= . Tradition, "Pink Ashley", from MARY A CHERRY, ... Mrs R.L.(Marie) Becker, ... 4/Mar/1993: "Robert Perry Ashley's body slave was named Pinky Ashley. He left Anston, ALA with R.P. and was gave freedom in Liberty, TX. Last contact with him was in 1932 in Brazos Bottom (close to Brazoria, TX)." ...Tradition, "Pinky Ashley" from Marie Becker:, "Pinky Ashley is the black man in Brazoria. He was raised by Robert Perry's family. He & RP were the same age. They came to TX together. He adopted the Ashley name & was "unrelated" unless he was a half-breed, which could be possible. They were both nursed by the same black nanny. Mother called him a body slave, but it could have meant that he was just close companion all their lives. It seems that someone knew that Pinky was going to be born and would be gotten rid of, so they tied a quilt down in the well that night. The next morning, when they looked, there was the black baby down in the well on the quilt. From then on he was raised with Robert Perry Ashley. When they got to Liberty they went their separate ways and didn't see each other again until 1932 or so." [Jackie Pace] ======================= Note that RPA was born the last day of 1869. Slavery had ended in Alabama. Since abolishing slavery did not abolish economic realities, it was not uncommon for freed slaves to continue working where they had worked all their lives, since it was the only life they knew and the only way they had to make a living. I recall my mother discussing resentment of blacks for those who were half-white and called them "piano-keys" (half-black, half-white). Her era would have been the 1920s. I know of instances of white men having black children for whom they provided support and education in the 1930s. In my own community in mid-AL in the 1930s and 1940s, I know of a black child raised in a white family. I know no circumstances, except that I do not recall him as being very dark. I do remember seeing him with his white "step-brother" and white friends and feeling empathy for him because, although he enjoyed the benefits of living with the white family, he was fully accepted by neither the whites nor the blacks. He looked black, but he "talked white". For all these reasons, I would suggest the *possibility* (theory, guess) that the name Pinky resulted from his complexion, that he was mulatto, and the father was known to Ann R. and Moses. It is not hard to imagine how two 20-year-olds, one black, one white, brought together under such circumstances, could find themselves in situations leading to fights. Since a death occurred, Pinky was the one who would have had the greater need to get well away from the scene, but RPA, only slightly less so. [John Robertson] ======================= If we were able to see an 1870 census listing for the Moses/Ann R. Ashley family, it would solve so many mysteries about this family (Mandy Becky, Thomas, Pinky, Robert P, Amanda M, etc.). Nettie tells me that they do not appear *anywhere* on an Alabama census for any county for 1870! Could they have gone to nearby MS, or were they simply missed on the census? They next seem to reappear in Tuscaloosa Co. in 1876, rather than in Greene Co. where they had previously been. [John Robertson] ======================= ...Robert had a brother named Thomas. He had 3 kids named Guy, Dove, Ruby. The last they saw of Thomas these are the kids he had.That is why I have a problem with Thomas being La Dove. My grandfather Guy was the last of 9. My G uncle Joe La Dove was 4th I believe and Ruby was like 5th. ...The problem is why wouldn't they know all the kids before them. ...I think he may be a brother. ... [Troie Wilde] ======================= I don't really have much on Thomas. Except that he was born in Greene Co. Had the 3 kids Guy, Dove, Ruby. They had circa birth for him which was within 3 or 4 years of La Dove. Jackie believes Thomas and La Dove are the same. I think she believes his name may have been Thomas La Dove. If you look at the sources she has on the files I sent It could tell you more. They are at the bottom. But like me she is willing to keep a open mind. I lean one way she leans another. It's the name of the 3 kids is why she feels strongly. [Troie Wilde] ======================= ...My great uncle James William Ashley, was supposed to have a third given name of Moses but he didn't like it so when he got copies of his birth certificate in 1943, he dropped that name. This was told to me before his wife passed away. He was born Feb. 12, 1909. Green Co. Ala.He died Oct. 21, 1986 in Hearne, Robertson Co. TX. His Mother was Alice Ann Elizabeth Barfield-Ashley b. Aug. 06, 1877 and Father was Robert Perrin Ashley, b. Dec.31,1869. Both of his parents were still living at this time. His father died in 1946, and his mother died in 1958. His mother signed the affidavit of his birth. My mother (Mary Ricks-Cherry) always told me that her double first cousin, Robert Dudley Ricks was named after a family member. His name was Dudley Robeson or Robertson possibly on the Ashley side of the family because two Ashley boys married two Ricks girls. This is true because I am the ggrandaughter of one of those girls and I have proof of that. There was also an Aunt Manda mentioned by my Mother, no proof of that. Also the Ashleys were supposed to have lived in Anston, Ala.( Could be Anniston) my Mother didn't spell very well. Her memory of the pronunciation could have been wrong too. Robert Perrin had a brother Thomas. Thomas had three children by the names of Guy, Dove and Ruby. I have no proof of this either except what my g uncle James William Ashley has said before he died. [Marie Becker] ======================= Mandy Becky Ashley (m. John Thomas Robertson) had a son named John Dudley Robertson. I am John Ashley Robertson and am named for him. He was most often called Dudley. I also have other Robertson cousins named Dudley for him. I have no idea where his name Dudley originated. Mandy Becky Ashley Robertson and Ann R. Leigh Ashley both lived in Anniston AL at the time of their deaths in 1908. John T. Robertson either then or later owned the land on which Moses Ashley had been buried in 1883. Mandy's oldest son Will (who would have been born the year after Moses died and would have been about 25 when Mandy and Ann R. died) had Moses remains exhumed and reburied at his own plot at Hillside Cmty. in Anniston. At the Hillside site there is a gravestone for Moses and a memorial stone for Ann R. Ashley. Pictures of both these stones are on the "Desc. of Wm. Ashley" site under "Pictures". It is obvious that these headstones are decades more recent than that of Mandy Becky and were almost certainly commissioned by Will. [John Robertson] ======================= ...I don't think that you will find much about my Robert Perrin Ashley. My mother is dead now but she used to tell me that Robert had a brother Tom. He was supposed to have lived in Pampas Texas at one time. Dove , Guy, and Ruby was the only children she knew of that was supposed to belong to Tom I guess there could have been more. At one time before he passed away, Guy came and visited my Uncle James William Moses Ashley. His wife now deceased told me that when her husband got his birth certificate he dropped the Moses from it because he disliked the name. I don't know any more than that. Roberts mother was supposed to have been married five times. She owned a plantation in Mobile, AL. One of her names was Lay, it may have been her maiden name. She also could have married a man named Wood or Woods. My grandfather left AL. under duress. He was supposed to have got into a brawl or fight with a man and his manservant named Pinky tried to help him but the man was killed. Robert's mother made them pack up what they could on horseback and told him to go to Texas. Along the way, Pinky was let go at Liberty TX. to make a life of his own. This could have been at the time Robert "Bob" Perrin Ashley met Alice Ann Elizabeth Ashley. Her father was also named Robert but he was called "Rob" .Her mother was a Barfield. They already was living in Liberty when Robert got there. ... [Marie Becker] ======================= Ann R. was not found among the LAYs or LEIGHs in the 1850 Greene Co. Census (see under "Related Links" on the "Desc. of Wm. Ashley" webpage. Witness to marriage documents for Mandy Becky Ashley and John Thomas Robertson in Tuscaloosa Co. AL was William Henry Wood. William Henry Wood and his wife Margaret are buried head-to-foot with J.T. Robertson and Mandy Becky Ashley Robertson at Grants Creek Cmty about 12 miles west of Tuscaloosa AL, near the community of Fosters. They died in the 1940s, some 30 years after MBAR and about 10 years after JTR. Margaret was about a year younger than Mandy Becky. A picture of the Woods gravestone is under "Pictures" on the "Desc. of Wm. Ashley" website. [John Robertson] ======================= ...I haven't been able to prove with census or anything that Robert P. and Thomas or "Tom" were brothers, but according to my great aunt, and my mother, they say they were brothers. Guy , Dove, and Ruby were Tom's children. He used to live at Pampas, Texas. Guy visited with James William Moses Ashley sometime in the past. ... [Marie Becker] ======================= If you will take a look at the ... 1850 Greene Co. census, you will note that at the same property where the mysterious William Ashley, age 30, was employed as an overseer, was a son of the owner named Robert Perrin, age 13! I'll betcha that this William was well-known to Moses. There is no 18 year-old Ann R. around but this may well be her family. Did someone not point out that RPA was named such because that was her family name. Why are we calling her Ann R. Leigh? Does anyone know all the "many names" associated with this colorful person? I have heard: Perrin (seemingly her maiden name) Wood Leigh Ashley ...so it seems we are missing two (or perhaps just one). ... Does anyone have any more info about this "plantation near Mobile" that her family is supposed to have had and was visited by Texas cousins? At this point, I am assuming that if it were her family, that would have been Perrins. ======================= I have been talking to my dad [James C.]. I remember someone saying something about Pampas. My dad doesn't recall his dad(Guy) living there. But he says that we had relatives who lived there. My grandfather [Guy] was always traveling. I remember he would always come with a suitcase full of vitamins. He told me he was salesman. I remember my grandfather had a wooden leg. He told me when he was younger he was hit by a train and he lost his leg.He also told me about my great-grandma Ashley [Nancy]. She smoked a corn cobb pipe. Loved to garden and can her fruits and vegetables she grew. I also remember he said something about a lot of trees could be seen when she sat on her porch. I believe he told me my Great-grandpa [LaDove] love to whittle with wood on his porch. [Troie Wilde] =======================
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