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Individual Notes

Note for:   Hugh Freskyn,    -          Index

Alias:   Hugh Freskyn /de Moravia/, Earl of Sutherland


Individual Notes

Note for:   Robert Munro,   ABT 1260 - 1322         Index

Alias:   6th Baron of /Foulis/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13794

***Notes for Robert Munro, 6th Baron Foulis:
Robert Munro joined the party of Robert Bruce in his claim to the throne of Scotland. Robert assisted in Robert Bruce's decisive victory over Edward II at Bannockburn. Robert was in his minority when his father, George Munro, died. Robert was under guardianship of the Earl of Ross until reaching his majority in 1282. Both Robert and his son George were in the Battle of Bannockburn, in 1314. His son George was killed, but Robert returned unhurt "tho much 'bereaved by the loss of son and other near relatives". Robert lived nine years after his return. Robert died in 1323. When Robert died the succession would fall to his grandson, George.

Individual Notes

Note for:   George Munro,    - 1282         Index

Alias:   5th Baron of /Foulis/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13795
***Notes for George Munro, 5th Baron Foulis:
The 5th Baron of Foulis had all his Ross-shire lands confirmed to him by charter from Alexander II before 1249. From this time documentary family records exist.

George succeeded his father as 5th Baron Fowlis in 1239. He had all the family lands confirmed to him by a special charter from Alexander II before 1249. This charter states that the lands were held of old by his ancestor, Donald. All Gaelic Chiefs of note had, around this date, become anxious for confirmatrions of their holdings by the Scottish kings, and George, 5th Baron of Foulis, obtained charters from Alexander II. George Munro had all his Ross-Shire lands confirmed to him by charter from Alexander II before 1249. From this date documentary family records exist.

Individual Notes

Note for:   Sutherland,    - Deceased         Index

Individual Note:
     [robert munro.ged]

This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13945

Individual Notes

Note for:   Robert Munro,    - 1239         Index

Alias:   4th Baron of /Foulis/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13796
***Notes for Robert Munro, 4th Baron Foulis:
He married between 1194 and 1214, a daughter of Hugh Freskyn de Moravia. It is also stated he married a daughter of the Earl of Sutherland.

Individual Notes

Note for:   Donald Munro,    - BET 1192 AND 1195         Index

Alias:   3rd Baron of /Foulis/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13797
***Notes for Donald Munro, 3rd Baron Foulis:
Donald Munro was the 3rd Baron of Foulis. Donald was said to have built the Old Tower of Fowlis in 1154. He assisted William the Lion (1163-1214), the first Scotch King to really have established sovereighty in the Highlands...in representing the Rebellion. Donald died in his Tower in 1192. The growing importance of thee Munros is fully indicated by the marriage of his successor, Robert, with a daughter of the Earl of Sutherland.

It is said that Donald materially aided William the Lion, the first Scotch king really to establish sovereignty over the Highlands, in suppressing the hitherto unchecked lawlessness of those northern regions.

A contradiction in children:
Children of Donald Munro, 3rd Baron Foulis are:
     7 i. David Munro.
     8 ii. Donald Munro.
+ 9 iii. Robert Munro, 4th Baron Foulis, died 1269.

Individual Notes

Note for:   Unknown Freskyn,    - Deceased         Index

Individual Note:
     [robert munro.ged]

This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13943

Individual Notes

Note for:   Robert Munro,    - 1164         Index

Alias:   2nd Baron of /Foulis/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13798
***Notes for Robert Munro, 2nd Baron Foulis:
Robert Munro was the 2nd Baron of Foulis. Robert was a loyal subject of David I and Malcolm IV of Scotland. Robert was an active assistant to David I and Malcolm IV in their various wars. Robert married a daughter of Angus Mor MacDonald. Robert died in 1164 and was interred in the Cathedral Church of Chanonry of Ross, which continued to be the burial place of the Munros for some 400 years.

Individual Notes

Note for:   George Munro,    - 1101         Index

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13799
***Notes for George Munro:
George Munro was said to have assisted Malcolm III in contention with Macbeth for the crown of Scotland from 1054 until 1057. George Munro lived to an advanced age and died in 1101/

George helped Malcolm III, son of King Duncan, wrest the Scottish throne from that usurper, MacBeth, whome Shakespeare has made immortal.

Individual Notes

Note for:   Hugh Munro,    - 1126         Index

Alias:   1st Baron of /Foulis/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13940
***Notes for Hugh Munro, 1st Baron Foulis:
Hugh Munro was the first to be designated Baron of Foulis. He enlarged the family estate.

Hugh was named the first Baron of Fowlis. From him the title and estates came down in uninterrupted lineal male descent for nearly 300 yrsw. and is believed to be unexampled in the annals of Scotland and England, and only paralleled in the succession of the Lords Kingsale, premier Barons of Ireland.
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Munro Family Genealogy Forum


Re: Munros Beyond 1369
Posted by: Malcolm Hamilton (ID *****5106) Date: February 23, 2003 at 09:36:35
In Reply to: Re: Munros Beyond 1369 by Don Munro of 1549


Don,

Some followup notes (if others who read items on this chat list would prefer that Don and I carry on this conversation off-line, please say so).

Munro Name: The Scottish Record's Register of Marriages and its Register of Interments appear to regard any spelling of the name as the same. It lists all deaths and marriages under one multiple surname heading, followed by lists of first names, regardless how the individual spelled his/her name.

Bisset: My GGG Great Grandmother's name was Jennet [various spellings] Bisset. No one in the family can trace the line directly before her or her husband Donald, who is supposed to have been born in Inverness about 1767. I may try a little digging, when I get to the highlands next fall. The Bisset name appears, as you have said, to be of an important family.

The First Donald: As I've said before, evidence in other legends suggests to me that somewhere back there, there was a Donald. He is supposed to have been given lands by King Malcolm II, but that is quite assuredly not correct. So we have a Malcolm and a Donald to find.

It has been noted that until 1476, the Munros who were not servants of the church were vassals of the earls of Ross--maybe even related to them.

The first earl of Ross was Malcolm Macheth (sometimes as Macbeth--but not the King whom Shakespeare made famous). This land was given (or some say restored) to Macheth by King Malcolm IV some time before 1160.

It is far more likely that the lands conferred upon the Munro's was by sasine from an earl of Ross, but that title did not exist until about 1160 A.D. (150 years after the shadowy Donald of Munro legends)

Macheth's son was Donald. He was the son-in-law of Somerled, the self-styled Lord of the Isles.

When Macheth died, the earldom reverted to the King, and it was many years later that it was awarded to the 2nd earl of Ross, Fearchar (Farquhar Macintagart) [d. 1251].

Another Munro-related topic that fascinates me is the use of the terms "baron" and "barony." Some writers have elaborately counted the chiefs of the clan as barons, starting with the shadowy Donald; others start with his grandson Hugh.

The first reference in the writs of Munro to a barony of Foulis occurs in a charter dated 1588. And none of the writs refer directly to a "baron" of Foulis until a chancery precept in 1676. By that time, Sir Hector Munro had already been made a Baronet of Nova Scotia by Charles the I about 1634.

Individual Notes

Note for:   Donald Munro,   990 - 1053         Index

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13800
***Notes for Donald Munro, Founder House of Foulis:
"The founder of the ancient house of Fowlis, according to the Cowl manuscript, was Donald Munro, the son of O'Cathan, an Irish chief, Prince of Fermanagh. Donald rendered material aid to King Malcolm II in his contest with the Danes & received therefor certain lands which were subsequently erected into a barony called the Barony of Fowlis---, which has been the chief residence of the House which for nearly 800 years has existed in uninterrupted descent in the male line--a fact said to be unexampled in the annals of Scotland & England."

Donald, son of Ocaan, Prince of Fermangh, led his clan back to Scotland, fought for King Malcolm II, A.D. 1025, and at a Parliament at Scone he was granted a Barony, which he named Foyle or Foulis after the Lough from whence he came.

Donald Munro was the first Munro to hold land in Scotland. He received his land at the hands of Malcolm II, for aid given to that king against the Danes. The land on Alness Water, called Ferindonald (or Donald's land), was subsequently erected into the Barony of Fowlis, and was still in possession of the family in 1900.

Individual Notes

Note for:   O'Cathan,   BEF 990 - Deceased         Index

Alias:   Occaan Prince of Fermonach in /Ireland/

Individual Note:
     This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/stilletta/1/data/13801
***Notes for (O'Cathan) Ocaan, Prince of Fermanagh:
The Monroe or Munro family was founded by Ocaan, Prince of Fermangh, chief of a clan of Scots who, in the 4th Century, had been driven by the Romans into Ireland. Ocaan dwelt by lough Foyle, on the Roe water, about 1000 A.D., from whence the name Munro (Man from Roe), is derived.
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http://www.theknowltons.com/ps04/ps04_273.html

    O'CATHAN (PRINCE OF1 FERMANAGH) was born Bef. 1020.

Notes for O'CATHAN (PRINCE OF FERMANAGH):

[Source: "History of the MUNROS of Fowlis...." by Alexander MacKenzie, MJI, 1898] Page 2: ..... There is , however, no doubt that Angus Og of the Isles, who succeeded his elder brother Alexander in 1303, married Margaret, daughter of Guy O'Cathan, anglicised O'Kaine, of Ulster, the tocher being, according to Hugh MacDonald the "Sleat Seannachaidh", seven score men out of every surname under O'Kain. Of these Irishmen, several are said to have become the heads of clans or septs in Scotland, and among them MacDonald specially mentions "the MUNROs, so-called because they came from the Innermost Roe-Water in the country of Derry, their names being formerly O'Millans"......

.....The author of the "Chronological Account" already quoted adds that "the people then being much addicted to call men patronimically, or from the places whence they came, always called Donald, O'Caan's son, Donald Munro, and his successors MUNRO, as Irish wrytes yet extant testifie, and were called in English and Latin "de Monro", and that in respect that O'Caan's residence and castle was on the Ro water; and it is informed the said Donald called the place he took in Scotland "Foules", after a land so-called in Ireland, near Loch Foyle. It may be stated there is a "Lough Foyle" in County Derry into which the River Roe still empties itself, and this may be said to lend a certain modicum of plausibility to the tradition which connects the ancestors of the Munros with that locality.

"The late well-known and distinguished author of "Celtic Scotland", Dr. W. F. Skene, discusses the subject in an earlier work in which he expresses the opinion that the Munros came originally into Ross from the Province of Moray. .......... The same high authority, after pointing out where the possessions of the Munros lie, says that their lands are known in the Highlands by the name of "Fearann Donald", a name "derived from the progenitor Donald, who bore the patronymic O'Cain; but as they originally formed a part of the tribe of Moray, it seems clear that their earliest seats must have been in that part of Moray from which they were driven out by the Bissets. "

Children of O'CATHAN (PRINCE OF FERMANAGH) are:

2. i. DONALD2 MUNRO, b. Bef. 1040, Ross-shire, Scotland; d. Abt. 1053, Ross-shire, Scotland.

ii. ANN MUNRO, m. ANGUSH MACDONALD (OF ISLA) ("LORD OF THE ISLES").
Notes for UNNAMED (Family)
Web sites on the family as well:
HISTORY:
http://www.clan-munro-assoc.demon.co.uk/munros.htm

FOULIS CASTLE
http://www.tartans.com/clans/Munro/foulis.html

CLAN CHIEFS
http://www.clanmunroassoc.demon.co.uk/chief.htm

EULOGY for CAPTAIN PATRICK
http://www.tartans.com/clans/munro/patrickmunro.html

MONTGOMERY'S HIGHLANDERS
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/scotreg/montgomery.htm
71
Last Modified 12 Mar 2001 Created 16 Jul 2003 by Cameron Knowlton
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    Munro Family Genealogy Forum

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message
Munros Beyond 1369
Posted by: Don Munro (ID *****1758) Date: February 20, 2003 at 21:40:38
     of 1549

I have noticed with interest the claims of some Munros that they can trace their ancestors back to Occaan Prince of Farmonach in Ireland to the year 1000AD & beyond and would make the following comments. Genealogy is an exact study that must be based on facts and the fact is that no Munro or Monro can go back further that 1369 and that is a lot further than most can go.

RW Munro is the Munro Clan genealogist and in 1978 he expanded on MacKenzies Munro Family History 1898 and I quote from his text. He is talking about the 1st 10 generations, which exist by tradition only. I would also say that a number of writers suggest that the Munros are native Celts and not from Ireland- eg the Earl of Cromartie in his book “A Highland History.” Here is an abridged copy of what RW Munro says.

“It must be acknowledged that documentary proof of these intervening generations is entirely lacking; several cogent reasons can be advanced for not accepting them as authentic, and they have in fact been subjected to fair and detailed criticism.”

He gives four reasons why some of the claims are unlikely but I have omitted them for the sake of brevity

“These first ten generations, therefore, with all their names and dates and other attendant details, should not be taken too seriously, and can certainly not be regarded as established fact or even as genuine local tradition. It seems to be not at all unlikely, as has been suggested, that the traditional founder, Donald, has been placed earlier than he should be in time, and that the gap between him and the recorded chiefs (which may in fact have been no more than a generation or two) has been filled in perhaps more or less at random from scraps of undated oral tradition, with appropriate details supplied by conjecture if not by deliberate invention.

From 1369 onwards the Munro genealogy can be fully supported by contemporary evidence, as illustrated in the notes, and as much of that evidence is based on land-holding it will be well to see what is known from various sources about the Munro lands of Ferindonald and the ancient barony of Foulis.”

    Munro Family Genealogy Forum


Re: Munros Beyond 1369
Posted by: Malcolm Hamilton (ID *****5106) Date: February 21, 2003 at 14:59:07
In Reply to: Munros Beyond 1369 by Don Munro of 1549

This an area of particular interest to me--probably an article to come eventually.

Most serious scholars accept the fact that the first ten generations of Munros lack any credibility based on contemporary evidence, and I would be the last to dispute this. At the same time, one must remember that there was a real Arthur behind the much embroidered legend of King Arthur. There was/is a Troy, and maybe even there was a Santa Claus.

I believe that somewhere back there, there was a Donald. Not the son of the prince of Fermanagh, to be sure. For one thing, it is very clear to the noted historian William F. Skene that the Highlanders did not descend from the Irish Scots, but from the Picts. He argues convincingly that the Highlanders were natives of the area and had been there for centuries.

I think the clue is with the earls of Ross to the unnamed generations of Munros before your 1369 bunch, which, by the way is not the earliest ones mentioned.
There is a charter by William Earl of Rosse, Lord of Sky, etc. etc, dated somewhere not before 1350 and not after 1371 that grants land to Robert de Munro.

The Munros did not appear magically on that date, of course. They had been around for quite a while. The problem is that they hadn't been sigificant enough to catch the attention of those who were writing the great charters and grants. Therefore, there is no contemporary evidence, but I'm sure in my soul that they were there. Now if we can just find out where Munro is, because it is surely a place.

Enough clues


Individual Notes

Note for:   Joseph Camp,   1741 - AFT 1805         Index

Individual Note:
     [thomas camp iii.ged]

This individual was found on GenCircles at: http://www.gencircles.com/users/wfuller/1/data/3859