_Almos* of Hungary____________________
                                                                             _Bela II* K of Hungary__________|______________________________________
                                                     _Geza II* K of Hungary_|
                                                    |                       |                                 ______________________________________
                                                    |                       |________________________________|______________________________________
                           _Bela III* K of Hungary__|
                          |                         |                                                         _Vladimir II* G D of Kiev_____________
                          |                         |                        _Mstislas II* G D of Kiev_______|_Gytha* of England____________________
                          |                         |_Euphrosine* of Kiev___|
                          |                                                 |                                 _Dmitri I* of Novogorod_______________
                          |                                                 |_UNKNOWN* of Novogorod__________|______________________________________
 _Andrew II* K of Hungary_|
|                         |                                                                                   _Gautier* Seignuer de Chatillion______
|                         |                                                  _Henry I* S de Chatillion_______|_Mahaud\Malande* of Louvain___________
|                         |                          _Renaud* de Chatillion_|
|                         |                         |                       |                                 _Alberic* Seigneur de Mountjoy & Pacy_
|                         |                         |                       |_Ermengarde* de Mountjoy________|______________________________________
|                         |_Agnes* de Chatillion____|
|                                                   |                                                         _Bohemond I* Prince of Antioch________
|                                                   |                        _Bohemond II* Prince of Antioch_|_Constance* of France_________________
|                                                   |_Constance* of Antioch_|
|                                                                           |                                 _Baldwin II* K of Jerusalem___________
|                                                                           |_Alice* of Rethel_______________|_Malfia* of Melitene__________________
|
|--Bela IV* K of Hungary
|
|                                                                                                             ______________________________________
|                                                                            ________________________________|______________________________________
|                                                    _______________________|
|                                                   |                       |                                 ______________________________________
|                                                   |                       |________________________________|______________________________________
|                          _Berthold IV* D of Meran_|
|                         |                         |                                                         ______________________________________
|                         |                         |                        ________________________________|______________________________________
|                         |                         |_______________________|
|                         |                                                 |                                 ______________________________________
|                         |                                                 |________________________________|______________________________________
|_Gertrude* of Meran______|
                          |                                                                                   ______________________________________
                          |                                                  ________________________________|______________________________________
                          |                          _______________________|
                          |                         |                       |                                 ______________________________________
                          |                         |                       |________________________________|______________________________________
                          |_________________________|
                                                    |                                                         ______________________________________
                                                    |                        ________________________________|______________________________________
                                                    |_______________________|
                                                                            |                                 ______________________________________
                                                                            |________________________________|______________________________________

Ealhmund Under King of Kent

• Death: AFT 0784

• Reference: 1341

1. Egbert K of England

                                      _Ceolwald _
                            _Cenred _|___________
                  _Ingild _|
                 |         |          ___________
                 |         |_________|___________
         _Eoppa _|
        |        |                    ___________
        |        |          _________|___________
        |        |_________|
        |                  |          ___________
        |                  |_________|___________
 _Eafa _|
|       |                             ___________
|       |                   _________|___________
|       |         _________|
|       |        |         |          ___________
|       |        |         |_________|___________
|       |________|
|                |                    ___________
|                |          _________|___________
|                |_________|
|                          |          ___________
|                          |_________|___________
|
|--Ealhmund Under King of Kent
|
|                                     ___________
|                           _________|___________
|                 _________|
|                |         |          ___________
|                |         |_________|___________
|        ________|
|       |        |                    ___________
|       |        |          _________|___________
|       |        |_________|
|       |                  |          ___________
|       |                  |_________|___________
|_______|
        |                             ___________
        |                   _________|___________
        |         _________|
        |        |         |          ___________
        |        |         |_________|___________
        |________|
                 |                    ___________
                 |          _________|___________
                 |_________|
                           |          ___________
                           |_________|___________

Notes

He is conjectured to have married a daughter of Ethelbert II, King of Kent

(RIN 6599). See, for example, Wagner's "Pedigree and Progress," pedigree

29. If correct, this would open up a bona fide Merovingian descent via the

kings of Kent.

"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to

GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com on 30 Dec 1998

Subject: Re: Egbert of England:

. "I know that in this I am being more conservative than most, but I have

also wondered about the connection between Egbert and Ine. That his

father Eahlmund was King of Kent makes me wonder if this wasn't a new

dynasty from Kent that gained control of Wessex and grafted its

ancestors onto a known younger brother of a native King four generations

before (as is often the case with such grafts)."

30 Dec 1998 sbald@auburn.campus.mci.net (Stewart Baldwin), posted to

the same thread:

. ". . . but there is a serious problem that is often overlooked, and that is

that there is no good evidence that Egbert of Wessex was the son of

Eahlmund of Kent. That claim has been repeated an unknown number of

times, but the actual evidence is as follows:

. 1. The West Saxon genealogies give a certain Eahlmund as the name of

Egbert's father.

. 2. A certain Eahlmund appears as a sub-king in Kent in some

documents of the late eighth century.

. Other than the fact that they had the same name at roughly the same

time, there is no known evidence that the two individuals were

identical, so this is a good example of the old "name is the same"

problem.

. Another problem with the above theory is that the number of

generations back to the suggested "graft" is relatively small, increasing

the danger that the supposed lie would be caught by contemporaries.

(There was only 76 years between the death of Ine and the accession of

Egbert.)" [note: Ine is the supposed brother of INGLID, Ealhmund's great

grandfather.]

On 30 Dec 1998 "Chris Bennett" posted to the same

thread:

. "You're not the only one to have doubts! The Wessex genealogy is

frankly strange. Cerdic, Cynric and Ceawlin all have Celtic names, as

does Caedwalla as late as 688. After Ceawlin the succession jumps all

over the map. It is extremely suspicious, to my mind, that the ASC

produces ancestries for all the kings up to Ine but doesn't even attempt

to give a genealogy for any of the kings between Ine and Egbert beyond

some vague handwaving about them being descended from Cerdic -- and

Ine is the last close king to Egbert's line. Given that our major source,

the ASC, was compiled by Egbert's grandson who was at least as

interested in legitimising his line as he was in recording the history of

his people, the whole thing looks very suspect.

. . . There are some other items to consider. The name Egbert is

characteristic of the Kentish royal family. Also, for two generations

after Egbert's day Kent remained a separate kingdom ruled by members

of Egbert's family, which is special treatment quite unusual amongst

Saxon dynasties (though common on the continent). Finally, he appears

to have been sufficiently well-born to be accepted as a royal exile at

Charlemagne's court, and may even have married a relative. I agree that

none of these points are conclusive, but they are consistent with the

notion that he had Kentish affiliations."

. . . and continuing in onother post the next day:

. "A graft is even harder to explain if you adopt the Kentish scenario.

If Egbert had in fact been a member of the Kentish royal family, then

there would have been many people who knew of his Kentish origin, and

that knowledge would probably have still been around later in the

century, making the lie of a graft hard to get by with. Contrast this with

the possibility that Egbert was a West Saxon who came to the throne

with a vague claim that he was a descendant of Cerdic. In that case,

such a graft would be more likely to go uncaught. So, if there was a

"graft" which falsified the pedigree, an obscure West Saxon origin would

be the most likely possibility, not a royal Kentish one.

. Still, even though the evidence for Egbert's pedigree back to a

brother of Ine is clearly not as good as we would like, I see no clear

reason to mistrust it."

craigp@world.std.com (Craig Partridge) posted to

GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com on 10 Jan 1999

Subject: re: Egbert's genealogy to Cenred:

. "First, about the manuscript tradition agreeing. There are cases

where the variants of the Chronicle differ, and some of these

differences are due to copyists "correcting" the version they are copying,

using local source material. Since no such changes occurred (nor do we

see them in the later, gaudier, 10th century Wessex genealogies), we can

assume either (a) [as you point out] that there's one source, namely the

ASC itself, and that's it; or (b) that the multiple sources agreed. Since

there are cases where the multiple sources clearly didn't agree (viz:

Creoda), establishing agreement is a useful touchpoint.

. Stewart Baldwin noted the classic reason for saying the genealogy

was composed in Aethelwulf's reign -- namely the genealogy ends with

him. There's even more in this case. If you look at the ASC preface and

the genealogy under Aethelwulf, you'll see the preface has additional

generations blatantly added as an afterthought -- the copyist simply

tacked on some sentences after copying an existing genealogy. And the

Aethelwulf genealogy was carefully designed to be two runs of equal or

roughly equal lengths. In short, someone clearly took time to write a

classic genealogy for Aethelwulf, and it was added to quickly when the

ASC was put together.

. Incidentally, we know genealogy was an interest in Aethelwulf's reign.

If my memory isn't too busted, Asser records that Alfred had a book as

a boy that contained histories and royal genealogies.

. Finally, you raised the question of Kentish links for Ine and family. Ine

was actively involved in Kentish affairs -- most historians treat the

limited evidence of late 600s Wessex activities in Kent as the start of a

multi-century struggle for Kent to retain its independence from its two

more powerful neighbors. That said, I tried very hard to be agnostic in

my previous note about whether Ealhmund, father of Egbert, and

Ealhmund, king of Kent, were the same person. It is clear that Egbert

was the son of *someone* named Ealhmund.

. . . Side note: If Ealhmund, father of Egbert, was the king of Kent, then

the grafting issue is still hanging over our heads. However, what I

believe my little analysis showed is that it had to be a skillful grafting,

that met other requirements such as generation lengths -- and there's

plenty of evidence that grafting was not traditionally done with

chronology constraints in mind. In short, this is either a *very* good

forgery, or it is accurate. (Expressed another way, as genealogists we

often have to distinguish between known fact, and "probably" and

"possibly" -- in this case, given all we know, we should treat Egbert to

Eafa as fact [while saying "possibly or probably" for Ealhmund's status

as king of Kent], and say "probably" for Eoppa/Ingild). I think this is

consistent with your thinking -- or have I missed some key point?

Thanks again for your input (esp. the point about Egbert's age)!"

Adela of Anjou

• Reference: 6708

1. Fulk C of Vendome

                                                                                                                       _Ingelger C of Anjou__________
                                                                                       _Fulk I "the Red" C of Anjou___|_Adelaide of Gastinais________
                                                       _Fulk II "The Good" C of Anjou_|
                                                      |                               |                                _Garnier Seigneur de Loches___
                                                      |                               |_Roscille de Loches____________|_Toscanda ____________________
                               _Geoffrey I C of Anjou_|
                              |                       |                                                                _Berillo I Viscount of Vienne_
                              |                       |                                _Ratburns I Viscount of Vienne_|_Ermengarde of Provence_______
                              |                       |_Geberga ______________________|
                              |                                                       |                                ______________________________
                              |                                                       |_Gerberga _____________________|______________________________
 _Fulk III "Nerra" C of Anjou_|
|                             |                                                                                        _Herbert I C of Vermandois____
|                             |                                                        _Herbert II C of Vermandois____|_Liedgarde? of Troyes_________
|                             |                        _Robert C of Troyes____________|
|                             |                       |                               |                                _Robert I K of France_________
|                             |                       |                               |_Adela of Paris________________|_Adele (Aelis) _______________
|                             |_Adela of Troyes_______|
|                                                     |                                                                _Manasses C of Chalon_________
|                                                     |                                _Giselbert D of Burgundy_______|_Ermengarde of Provence_______
|                                                     |_Adelaide of Burgundy__________|
|                                                                                     |                                ______________________________
|                                                                                     |_Ermengarde ___________________|______________________________
|
|--Adela of Anjou
|
|                                                                                                                      _Ingelger C of Anjou__________
|                                                                                      _Fulk I "the Red" C of Anjou___|_Adelaide of Gastinais________
|                                                      _Fulk II "The Good" C of Anjou_|
|                                                     |                               |                                _Garnier Seigneur de Loches___
|                                                     |                               |_Roscille de Loches____________|_Toscanda ____________________
|                              _Bouchard C of Paris___|
|                             |                       |                                                                _Berillo I Viscount of Vienne_
|                             |                       |                                _Ratburns I Viscount of Vienne_|_Ermengarde of Provence_______
|                             |                       |_Geberga ______________________|
|                             |                                                       |                                ______________________________
|                             |                                                       |_Gerberga _____________________|______________________________
|_Elizabeth\Adela of Vendome__|
                              |                                                                                        ______________________________
                              |                                                        _______________________________|______________________________
                              |                        _______________________________|
                              |                       |                               |                                ______________________________
                              |                       |                               |_______________________________|______________________________
                              |_Elizabeth ____________|
                                                      |                                                                ______________________________
                                                      |                                _______________________________|______________________________
                                                      |_______________________________|
                                                                                      |                                ______________________________
                                                                                      |_______________________________|______________________________

Notes

Thomas* E of Norfolk

• Birth: 1 JUN 1300, of Brotherton
• Death: 1338

• Reference: 5400

1. Margaret* Duchess of Norfolk

                                                                                                                                  _Geoffrey V "Plantagenet" C of Anjou____
                                                                                         _Henry II K of England__________________|_Matilda Empress of Germany_____________
                                                   _John K of England___________________|
                                                  |                                     |                                         _William X "le Jeune" D of Aquitaine____
                                                  |                                     |_Eleanor of Aquitaine___________________|_Eleanor de Chastellerault______________
                         _Henry III K of England__|
                        |                         |                                                                               _William IV TAILLIFER C of Angouleme____
                        |                         |                                      _Ademar TAILLIFER C of Angouleme________|_Marguarite de Turenne__________________
                        |                         |_Isabel TAILLIFER of Angouleme_______|
                        |                                                               |                                         _Peter Prince of France_________________
                        |                                                               |_Alice de COURTENAY ____________________|_Elizabeth de COURTENAY ________________
 _Edward I K of England_|
|                       |                                                                                                         _Alfonso II K of Aragon & C of Provence_
|                       |                                                                _Alfonso II C of Provence & Forcalquier_|_Sanchia of Castile & Leon______________
|                       |                          _Ramon Berenguer V Count of Provence_|
|                       |                         |                                     |                                         _Raimon de SABRAN C of Forcalquier______
|                       |                         |                                     |_Gersende de SABRAN ____________________|_Garsinde of Forcalquier________________
|                       |_Eleanor of Provence_____|
|                                                 |                                                                               _Humbert III C of Savoy_________________
|                                                 |                                      _Thomas C of Savoy______________________|_Beatrix of Macon_______________________
|                                                 |_Beatrix of Savoy____________________|
|                                                                                       |                                         _William I C of Geneva__________________
|                                                                                       |_Margaret heiress of Faucigni___________|_Beatrix de Faucigny____________________
|
|--Thomas* E of Norfolk
|
|                                                                                                                                 _Philip II "Augustus" K of France_______
|                                                                                        _Louis VIII "The Lion" K of France______|_Isabel of Artois_______________________
|                                                  _Louis IX* K of France_______________|
|                                                 |                                     |                                         _Alfonso VIII K of Castile______________
|                                                 |                                     |_Blanche of Castile_____________________|_Eleanor of England_____________________
|                        _Philip III* K of France_|
|                       |                         |                                                                               _Alfonso II C of Provence & Forcalquier_
|                       |                         |                                      _Ramon Berenguer V Count of Provence____|_Gersende de SABRAN ____________________
|                       |                         |_Marguarite* of Provence_____________|
|                       |                                                               |                                         _Thomas C of Savoy______________________
|                       |                                                               |_Beatrix of Savoy_______________________|_Margaret heiress of Faucigni___________
|_Marguarite* of France_|
                        |                                                                                                         _Henry I D of Brabant___________________
                        |                                                                _Henry II D of Brabant__________________|_Maud of Boulogne_______________________
                        |                          _Henry III* D of Brabant_____________|
                        |                         |                                     |                                         _Philip D of Swabia & HRE_______________
                        |                         |                                     |_Marie of Swabia________________________|_Irene ANGELICA of Byzantium____________
                        |_Marie* of Brabant_______|
                                                  |                                                                               _Eudes III* D of Burgundy_______________
                                                  |                                      _Hugh IV* D of Burgundy_________________|_Alix* de Vergy_________________________
                                                  |_Alix* of Burgundy___________________|
                                                                                        |                                         _Robert III* C of Dreux_________________
                                                                                        |_Yolande* de Dreux______________________|_Eleanor* of St. Valery_________________

Notes

Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" (Segrave, p.609). 5th son of KING EDWARD

I; Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England.