contains information on a new project
and currently under construction. This page will
be updated as information is developed.
to go direct to the modification
As previously presented in this DNA part, we have been involved with other HELME, HELM, Helmes and others in a broad Y-DNA project, which is largely completed. So, it is appropriate to take a look at what it has meant to us, from a genealogy standpoint. The immediately following paragraphs analyze some of the things we have learned from our part in the Project. Following this new discussion, the prior material is provided. for those who might not have followed the project closely, and to preserve the DNA Project description, etc.
of our Y-DNA Study Results
This portion addresses what has been added to our own NC HELMS Genealogical efforts?
The first was that we have only about a 1 % chance of being close kin to any of the English families in the initial project, despite having the same HAPLO type, Rib, as most Englishmen. So we would expect to have some similarity of the first 12 markers but have divergence in the results for higher marker count matches. That means that in the distant past we share ancestors with many Englishmen. As an example even with a zero to 2 mismatch at 12 markers, but a 5 or more mismatch at 25 or more markers, the MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) would have lived in about 200-500 AD which is much sooner than surnames were in use in England. Surnames were only partially been started by Wm The Conqueror after his invasion in l066. And, to get that MRCA be in the wider scale startup time of surnames like 1300 to 1400 AD, one needs no more than about 2 to 3 mismatches with high marker number testing. It is possible to compute the MRCA using the figure below showing a typical MRCA calculation for us.
So what common ancestor might the data be suggesting? One then has to look at the distribution of migrants and immigrants who may have been present in England in that 200-500 AD time period. And again in say 1300-1400 AD. There would be little chance of identifying any individual in the early period but one can use the DNA output to show that whoever he was, he likely came to Britain from France. There were such people, largely the CELTS who first came to the western edges and provinces such as England's the "lands-end" area and not only to Ireland and Wales, but also to Scotland. In the later time period after surnames were beginning to be more generally used, there were the so-called Normans who got their name from Normandy, the uppermost section of France. But they had other nationalities represented, such as the Danes and many mercenaries of uncertain origins. Prior to that there were the Romans who are thought to have not had much effect on the nationality mix in England and in the times of the first AD centuries the Vikings and, most particular, the Danes raided and occupied large sections of England, and a very strong component of Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians and Picts, who were generally very aggressive Germanic peoples, came in the period, 400 to 600 AD. Thus by Surname-time there was a complex makeup in the British population, yet each subgroup brought their genetic heritage with them. And one should expect to find representatives of those groups distinguishable by their HAPLO group, Rib for the French, Rla for the Danes, and I, II, and I-1 a for the Northern Germanic Group, etc.
In the HELMS Y-DNA
work, done so far, one of the output results is a determination of our
HAPLO group, R1b, which is shared by a large group of people who have
the same Unique Event Polymorphism's, which is a big word way to say that
they have the same or approximately the same collection of so called slow
genetic marker content. Significantly, if there are too many mutations
in those slow markers, an infant would not survive. Another way of saying
it is that those with little change or favorable change in those slow-changing
marker segments would survive, thus continuing a line. That is the reason
a valid HAPLO type has such strength in defining a line of people through
many generations. The scientists have a good idea which parts go to make
up the HAPLO group definition. That determination is beyond the scope
of this discussion. Human migrations have been going on for eons, so this
is a powerful tool to use to go backward in time for a line, and it is
possible to trace those migrations, which have expanded to all parts of the world in discoverable paths. Just
when and where our specific line became Helms is conjectural. I strongly
suspect that there were and are genetic Helms with other surnames. Thus,
if one is looking backwards in time from a particular place and time like
for Colonial period in England, he can discover the most logical immediate
previous location of a group in places like France, Germany or Denmark,
as examples. In a broad general way, it may be possible to assign dates
on those steps from place to place. But will have no idea what surname
such lines eventually become.
Having written all
of this as a non-professional, what has been done to our collected genetic
data is to record the definite DNA contents - including the key parts
which constitute the controlling long term parts. The data collected has
given us the defined definition of our family HAPLO group which was Rib.
Also the data has given us a set of common Y-DNA results which will enable
us to determine whether a new person or line is related to us. Separately,
over the years, by collecting statistical data around the world, the area
of the world which were founding places for one's HAPLO type have been
determined. This is obviously still going on and something less than 100
% certainty applies to it, in that it does not account for moves of single
and small groups of people. For instance, a Chinese cook could have been
placed in the middle of London almost at any time.
As will be observed,
the predicted date will be a long time ago, so it is only useful in the
deep sense. A close match at larger marker tested numbers the date is
advanced. Note that to get into the genealogically useful range a good
match is needed. This should have very significant effect on our genealogical
work. It means that we should focus on what it means to be looking back
at France, or even earlier times and places. When was that, is the key
question? In France it obviously could be any time after about 400-100
BC. . Needless to say, those times are of little use to us genealogically.
As it would be 1600 years too soon for surname genealogy. It is almost
100 generations of unnamed people. Even with a date like 1400 AD we have
about 20 generations to deal with. Yet, the descendants of any person
entering Britain even in such early times would still be carrying that
RIb Haplogroup. DNA.
Of significant present interest is a new English DNA project at this address:
That Project group is planning to determine more about the male Y- DNA patterns in English Counties. They want participants, ideally, those who have a known ancestor who resided in a county in England. As it turns out, we have several potential participants who are ideal to enter the project as Lancs persons.They have already had a DNA test at the right Lab and have an account already. At least one of our Helms study group is considering doing it. All he or she needs to do is enroll and give them access to their existing DNA. test data. And, I imagine they will want to know more about their specific genealogy.
is a similar Welsh Project coming available soon. Perhaps there will be
Below is the material referred to above which is a repeat of the previous discussion of this topic.
Recently, Matthew Helm, a descendant of the line of Georg Helm,
the Weaver-Merchant in Winchester, VA initiated a Project of DNA testing.
The purpose of this project is to use DNA tests as a basis to determine
the extent of kinship among the several lines of Helm/Helms, etc lines
in this country. For years the various groups have wondered about it.
The logic is that since the male Y-DNA is passed from the father to
son as an exact copy at each generation, in theory at least. Therefore,
a single test of a male descendant in each such line could be compared
and conclusions reached as to similarity. The assumption is that if
any two or more lines have nearly exact copies of their Y-DNA, this
would signify a possible kinship. Exact copies would doubtlessly show
the two are directly related in some way.
Initially 12 DYS Y-DNA tests were done, which were essentially identical, indicating that the three were probably brothers. Now extended tests are being done for George and Tilman. In those cases 37 DYS tests are being done. The reason for these tests is to discover a so-called modal Y-DNA data set for our Helms lines as well as to compare with the other tests in the project. That was a Phase I of the project and follow-on activities are being continued at the same DNA Lab test site. The participants from the North Carolina Helms, should continue this cooperative effort.
Further testing for new participants can be made by using link below to join the project by purcasing your DNA test:
It should be mentioned that the same general idea is also present for the female lines involved. That sign-in site discusses that option.
Since a mother's DNA is similarly passed to her daughter and so on down the line. However, it is difficult to find a present-day (living) descendant with an unbroken female line all the way back to the three families (Partly because a new or different DNA is introduced at each generation and because not every family had daughters.)
This is a good way to use the female DNA test results where there is a break in the male line if there are no sons in a line family, but where there were female children. In such a case, a female detour is a workaround to recover the continuity needed on the male side. As an example there were no known female children in the original families of Tilman, George and Jonathan Helms. This means that a female continuous linkage in the Helms case is not possible, baring finding a sister of the original Helms mother who had a traceable genealogy. Of course, working on the so-called allied lines, meaning the lines of the numerous wives over the years, is also a legitimate area of study. We intend to perform this study selectively, and are looking for cases where unique benefits are offered. In addition simply recording of one's genetic data is a valid thing to do for both males and females.
Sound genealogy is required to make the best use of this new approach.
You may expect to hear more about these activities. Your ideas and participation would be welcome. The more cases there are, the better the statistics and conclusions will be.
The Helm-Helms project is located at: Familytreedna.com, a nationally recognized DNA testing program.
Additional information or instructions for test volunteers should contact one of the following people:
Matthew Helms at: firstname.lastname@example.org
Ira Helms at: Irahelms@aol.com
Gerald Helms at: email@example.com
Use the link below to join the project and purchase your DNA test.
Therefore, I the editor of this web site have decided to open my own DNA data, which is representative, to any Helms person who is seeking to know if we may have common ancestors. If you desire to make comparisons to my DNA data please contact me direct at: Irahelms@aol.com
So, any such person can obtain a DNA test to make comparisons. Since we have the North Carolina Helms genealogy fairly well developed, we can exchange data as needed to establish the genealogy side. Hopefully, some new candidates will be entirely new to us and thus we will both profit from the exchange.
We have not yet encountered a genealogy problem needing candidates for the female genetics, but we recognize that possibility and would entertain examples.
Also, there is great value in the idea of archiving the DNA for private and future potential uses, especially in lines which are thinning.
The attached file illustrates some uses of the female mt DNA to assist in solving some family puzzles. Click here to view the file "Maternal or Matrilineal Studies Using mt DNA"
The goals established
for the project include:
As of January 2006,
the project has 29 members representing 14 family lines.
See the site above for current prices.
The testing process is quite simple and is as follows:
A test kit is mailed to you (or the test person) by the lab. The testee uses a swab to rub their cheek then send the swab back to the lab. The lab performs the DNA test and informs both you (or the testee) and Matthew Helms about the results. The lab analyzes the results and compares them with the other Helm-like lines in their database (if you permit it) and the results will be integrated into the Helm/etc project study. Some of the tests have been of English residents and since there are two long distance mail times involved, the English tests have taken somewhat longer to complete.
A simplified family
line for the testee is needed which covers up to the earliest person
for which you have records. An typical example would be:
If your line corresponds
to one of the current lines listed above, such as Leonard of Lancashire
or Christopher of Lincolnshire, you might explain the connection,
HELMS MIGRATION FROM NC
New February 2006