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Unk Hiram's Chat Cabins Hosted Chats Monday thru Thursday 8 - 10 pm Central Time |
A Visit with Dear Myrtle
by Dear Myrtle
Unk Hiram's Chat Cabins
March 13, 2003
DearMYRTLE: Looks like the gangs all here!
Unk_Hiram: First lets welcome Dear Myrtle to our little chat
cabins
and spend a few minutes going over her basic stuff before we let her run wild.
DearMYRTLE: hiya UNK!!!! nice talking with you the other evening on the radio show!
Unk_Hiram: Myrtle is a DAILY Genealogy Columnist, her stuff can be read at http://www.DearMyrtle.com
Unk_Hiram: She is also the host of an Internet Radio Show, which you can listen to at http://www.DearMyrtle.com
kat (to DearMYRTLE): I found this cumfy cabin because of your site! :joy
Unk_Hiram: She is also the writer of 3 books that I am aware of, maybe more.
DearMYRTLE: <blusing>
Unk_Hiram: (GRIN) and her Husband is a nice guy
Unk_Hiram: Myrtle was one of the people that encouraged me to start writing my column. So if you got a problem with my "Slant" on Genealogy Blame her.
DearMYRTLE: UNK you have a NATURAL TALENT for getting the
ideas across in an INTERESTING way....
DearMYRTLE: EASIER for people to remember things that way UNK!
DearMYRTLE: Proud to know ya.
Unk_Hiram: So Now I have said what I know, Myrt, Why dont you give us a little Bio on yourself
DearMYRTLE: :-))
Shell: Unk is unforgettable :joy
DearMYRTLE: tha'ts true!
DearMYRTLE: been doing onlining since 1985
DearMYRTLE: when I signed online with a Commodore 64
DearMYRTLE: it was a 300 baud modem.....
DearMYRTLE: now I believe I could run up to vienna virginia and make the
telephone dial up connection faster now.
DearMYRTLE: :-))
DearMYRTLE: in those olden days we had 1 chat per week....
DearMYRTLE: on QLINK the grandparent of AOL (with apple link and pclink in
between)
DearMYRTLE: we would max out the room with seven people.
DearMYRTLE: we could only send e-mail to the people on our same service
provider... and there WAS NO INTERNET for the average user....
DearMYRTLE: it was first used between reseasrch universities.
DearMYRTLE: we could not use graphics in our e-mail or send file attachments
like GEDCOM files.
DearMYRTLE: and that's kinda how it was in the OLDEN days of online genealogy!
DearMYRTLE: :-I
DearMYRTLE: I was fortunate to live in the greater washington
dc area.... in 1985 when I began research.
DearMYRTLE: so I took it for granted that I could look at original pension files
at the national archives and such.
DearMYRTLE: now that I live in Florida, I WISH I HAD DONE MORE while I lived up
north.
DearMYRTLE: was wondering what YOUR EARLY research experiences were....
DearMYRTLE: ANY
DearMYRTLE: WISH I HAD DONE this....
DearMYRTLE: or WISH I HAD DONE that.....
DearMYRTLE: to share with the newbies in the room?
norenxaq: yes
DearMYRTLE: don't be shy....
DearMYRTLE: NOREN.... go ahead....
DearMYRTLE: I'd LOVE to hear from ya kiddo!
kat: Wish I had started many years before...when parents and grandparents were alive
DearMYRTLE: true.... so you could interview them....
Brat_Angel: I wish I had documented better back in the early 80s.. have had to re-research many things I did back then
shawn152: i wish someone else had kept the family info going
DearMYRTLE: and get the FIRST HAND knowledge they had of THEIR PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS.
norenxaq: I wish I had pinpointed family rumors of relationships while those saying them were still alive
DearMYRTLE: <nodding>
MysteryMike: Unfortunately I learned on my own.... made mistakes on the way.... skipping generations, making assumptions.... and yes wish I could talk to some ancestors that are no longer with us
DearMYRTLE: I felt the same way BRAT.... i forgot to photocopy the title pages of books.
DearMYRTLE: so I didn't know the authors and titles... etc.
Bits: !I wish I had talked to my maternal grandfather. I was not "into" genealogy then and nobody talked about "family" much.. now he's gone
Sharon2: I'm like Brat, did not document well in the biginning and now have alot of great information that I have no idea where I got it from
DearMYRTLE: <sigh> seems, we ALL can relate to problems
associated with BEGINNING to do your family history.
DearMYRTLE: BUT AT LEAST you started....
DearMYRTLE: and its our job as perhaps the more "experienced"
researchers to SPREAD THE WORD
kat: Sharon, Bits, Mike's been settin me straight, so hopefully I won't make those mistakes. LOL
Unk_Hiram: Usefull Note: When you do your documentation, Note
the name of the book/source, Location, date you visited
norenxaq: myr: I am working with a person who also failed to copy references
DearMYRTLE: <sigh>
DearMYRTLE: that is soooo tough isn't it.
DearMYRTLE: then it isn't worth the price of the printout, is it?
norenxaq: it got so bad that it's now a running joke between
us
norenxaq: myr: the info is still useful, only unverified
DearMYRTLE: NOREN... you are RIGHT... clues to getting to the original documents...
Unk_Hiram: Usefull Note: You can use a BLOG to keep a daily record of your research http://www.blogger.com (IT"S FREE) and online
Bits: Unk..... Read about that in this week's column
DearMYRTLE: Libbi Powell Crowe asked me to comment on the
following for the update of her book, to come out this fall....
DearMYRTLE: here's her question.....
DearMYRTLE: let me copy and paste it exactly....
DearMYRTLE: What must the online genealogist consider as far as copyright, not
only taking care to give proper credit and citations, but also to avoid being
ripped off?
DearMYRTLE: HOW DO YOU ALL feel about that question?
DearMYRTLE: are you willing to SHARE?
norenxaq: myr: indeed
DearMYRTLE: I agree.....
DearMYRTLE: Traditionally genealogists have been a kindly, sharing group of
individuals. After all, no single researcher has every piece of the ancestral
puzzle. We need to share research back and forth among those with common
ancestors.
MysteryMike: I will only give out information now, that I truly have sufficient proof..... been burned in the past
DearMYRTLE: GOOD idea mike!
DearMYRTLE: how have you been able to SHARE information?
DearMYRTLE: where did you find those cousin connections?
norenxaq: share yes, and give proper credit of what the source material is
kat (to DearMYRTLE): I've come across alot from the message boards
DearMYRTLE: horray.... good point.
kat: cousins, that is
DearMYRTLE: KAT... that is a GREAT place to find people seaching the same ancestors.... or at the very least the same LOCALITY.
MysteryMike: I'd rather work together with someone online then just give them information and end it at that
DearMYRTLE: TRUE, Mike....
Unk_Hiram: USEFULL NOTE: When Citing ONLINE sources, Make a hard copy of the
email/Message to put with your research, cite the source name/date etc
norenxaq (to Unk_Hiram): or at least copy it to a text file
DearMYRTLE: Whenever we do use the work that someone else has
provided to us..... I think its fair to cite their work as a source as well as
the documents collected.
DearMYRTLE: Successful genealogy research does not exist in a vacuum where one
works totally alone. Its then only a matter of common sense to cite the source
of each piece of the puzzle, to leave a WIDE audit trail for those that follow,
and to give credit where credit is due.
DearMYRTLE: That wide audit trail is essential for others to be able to evaluate
the reliability of our research in our absence.
MysteryMike: And ask nicely for copies of any original documents they may have and offer any you may have
DearMYRTLE: Nodding!
Unk_Hiram: and offer to pay copy costs
norenxaq: myr: esp. with material found in books that are secondary sources by their very nature
DearMYRTLE: VERY good point, NOREN!
DearMYRTLE: Given such source citations (author, title, call number, microfilm number, publication date, etc.) it would be possible for a great-great-grandchild to obtain photocopies (or whatever they'll be using then) of original documents relating to his family tree.
DearMYRTLE: For that 2nd great grandchild to find my compiled genealogy.... WHAT A JOY that would be for him -- that's certainly how I feel when I find a new census or probate record mentioning an ancestor!
DearMYRTLE: do you usually have 13 people in this chat room... this is a LOT Of participants, UNK.... your chat rooms are POPULAR!
DearMYRTLE: way to go kiddo.... you guys sure have been doing well over here.
Dale: Is a very helpful Chat Room (the people not the room) and he will need more space!
Bits: Myrt... the rooms are growing..
Unk_Hiram: Myrt, We are building up attendance, slowely but surely
kat: ? How do you recommend passing down your work thru the family?
DearMYRTLE: WELL, I believe it is MYM responsibility to put it into the LATEST TECHNOLOGY possible... and it is my CHILDREN's JOB to keep it up from there....
DearMYRTLE: I kow that Should additional documentation come to
light in the mean time, that distant great-great-grandchild should compare it
with our old compiled genealogy, to see if the new information supports or
refutes the lineage assumptions we've made.
DearMYRTLE: so there is the FORM of the genealogy (paper or digital)
DearMYRTLE: and the CONTENT of our genealogy
DearMYRTLE: that its essential to keep up to snuff whenever possible.
Unk_Hiram: Kat, I copy my Material onto a CD at least once
every quarter, Plus I do a print out and store it every six months
DearMYRTLE: GREAT idea, UNK..... and since as you know I live in the hurricane
path.... I send a disk to my dad in Seattle , my kids in Utah and Arizona.
DearMYRTLE: If we all get blasted out at once.... then we'll be in heaven (hopefully) and will finally be able to MEET my elusive GGGRandmother Dolly Yockey's parents!
Shell: I backup and keep one here and put one in my safe deposit box
DearMYRTLE: good, as long as the safety deposit box has a CD (encoded via laser) and not a floppy (encoded using a magnet)
Shell: Never thought of that :-I
MysteryMike: Myrtle, What is the most asked question of you pertaining to genealogy?
DearMYRTLE: WHAT DO I DO WHEN I RUN OUT OF THE FAMILY
STORIES.... that is the FIRST BRICK wall people run into.
DearMYRTLE: they don't kow how to make the first jump into ordering VITAL
RECORDS or looking at a census record that might prove a family relationship.
DearMYRTLE: so I teach them about THE HANDYBOOK FOR GENEALOGISTS or Ancestry's
REDBOOK
DearMYRTLE: which list each county that ever existed in a state....
DearMYRTLE: anyone used either of those books?
MysteryMike: Yes, knowing all the resources available is a great plus to getting started
Brat_Angel: I bought the Handybook.. disappointed that the MO archive address is wrong when archives moved about 15 years ago
DearMYRTLE: RIGHT... these books list WHEN the county was created... and the PARENT COUNTY.
DearMYRTLE: eeeew! That is terribler BRAT!
Unk_Hiram: There are books out there for Genealogy???? Who would have thunk it
DearMYRTLE: and they list when the records began to be
kept,,,, and what court they are in.
DearMYRTLE: they even have ADDRESSES and phone numbers in these books.
Bits: I have the Handybook
kat: Where do you find those books?
DearMYRTLE: they have them at the larger public libraries.... even where there isn't a big genealogy department.
Unk_Hiram: Kat, You can order them from Amzaon .com
DearMYRTLE: Ours had it behind the reference desk years ago before we added the genealogy section of the librbary.
DearMYRTLE: Hopefully, genealogies will improve over time, as
we take what others have compiled and obtain additional documentation
DearMYRTLE: perhaps distinguishing between two John Smiths in an area where it
was previously thought there was only one individual by that name.
DearMYRTLE: In such as case, it isn't necessary to denigrate the work of the
previous researcher. Merely point out the expanded list of documents proving the
distinctions and bring the family puzzle into a new light.
Dale: Have you noticed any particular "traits" one has that makes them start and become addicted to genealogy research?
Dale: Wondering if you had any thoughts on why it is often just "one" member of a family who gets this bug.
DearMYRTLE: A default in the GENES I guess......
Dale: LOL
DearMYRTLE: makes one susceptable to this preoccupation with dead people!
DearMYRTLE: I am claiming one of those faulty genes myself
MysteryMike: My wife tells me that, "You got some morbid mail today".... of course referring to a death cert
DearMYRTLE: heheheheheheeeee Mike!
kat: If only the dead could talk!
norenxaq (to kat): they can... through seances :>
<DearMYRTLE nods at kat>
Unk_Hiram: USEFULL NOTE: Build on the research done by others and always give them credit for the work they have done
DearMYRTLE: I am sure the older genealogies accomplished a lot in providing other pieces of the puzzle. Cite all sources!
DearMYRTLE: Fortunately, I know of only one person who has stated she is unwilling to share her compiled genealogy data & documentation with others because she plans to print a book.
DearMYRTLE: <sigh> ???
<DearMYRTLE passes out a tray of home baked chocolate chip cookies to
everyone!>
norenxaq: myr: fear her research will be stolen?
DearMYRTLE: nope.....
MysteryMike: Bet that book would be better if she exchanged notes with others
DearMYRTLE: YES, it costs money to order microfilm, send away
for a marriage record and a complete military pension file.
DearMYRTLE: Its a major investment with the current price of gasoline to take
that essential cemetery research trip to the next state.
DearMYRTLE: But then what price can we truly put on knowing
from whence we came?
Unk_Hiram: So Myrt, What Would you advise a beginner to do first (Turnabout is
fair play)
Sharon2: My son asked me to please not will all that dead
folks stuff to him :-))
Brat_Angel: I have demanded that my pedigree be engraved on the back of my
tombstone
DearMYRTLE: my daughters are each expressing an interest, and
will look things up in Salt Lake if I give them the microfilm number.
DearMYRTLE: KEWL idea.... very like the GERMANS in Cincinnatti.
norenxaq: myr: germans in cincinnati? how so?
<DearMYRTLE passes out some lace edged linen napkins, and MORE COOKIES (no calories of course!)>
DearMYRTLE: that group of individuals is well known for
putting mention of placees in GERMANY of birth not just the date.
DearMYRTLE: and more information about their other family members.
DearMYRTLE: I thought it would be like that when I WENT to Germany in 1995.
DearMYRTLE: But I found that they do not keep the cemetery past about 25 years
Dale: oh yes, re use it soon?
DearMYRTLE: the PLOT that is is then given to someone else, and your ancestor's tombstone placed around the perimeter of the graveyard.
DearMYRTLE: right dale....
DearMYRTLE: reusing the place as soon as possible.
DearMYRTLE: The NGS and other nationally ranked genealogy
societies rightfully push for high standards in documentation and high standards
in the presentation of one's compiled genealogy.
DearMYRTLE: (Hence the Henry numbering system, footnotes in quarterly
publications, etc.)
DearMYRTLE: .) I believe there is also room for individuals who merely take
their computer print outs and photocopy 25 pages of their personal recollections
at the local office supply store and send them in manila envelopes to their
distant family members.
DearMYRTLE: Wouldn't we each give our eye teeth to have such a write up from our
Civil War or Revolutionary War ancestor?
DearMYRTLE: But as always, family lore must be proved before incorporating it
into our pedigree charts.
Dale: for sure!
DearMYRTLE: think you all already understand this....
DearMYRTLE: Looking at documents created at the time our ancestors lived are
eyewitness accounts of life as they knew it.
DearMYRTLE: BESIDES it is F-U-N :cool
MysteryMike: And how often the lore has been exaggerated or just incorrect....
DearMYRTLE: (right just EMBELLISHED a bit!!!) ???
Bits: Unk has a great column about keeping a daily journal..... great idea
Unk_Hiram: The Daily Journal is why I am "PUSHING"
the new Blog System
Unk_Hiram: It just takes a moment or two and the record will last forever
DearMYRTLE: remember earlier when I mentioned the person who WOULDN"T share her info with anyone?
Unk_Hiram: Yup
DearMYRTLE: > I suspect, though, that the individual in question most
certainly benefited from previously compiled research in books, web sites and CD
databases.
Bits: of course
DearMYRTLE: . It would be impossible to avoid the use of these
items as clues leading to the discovery of original documents.....
DearMYRTLE: For example, one would even have to consider a clerk of the court's
marriage indexes as previously compiled research.
DearMYRTLE: Such an index is indeed one step removed from the original creation of marriage licenses and marriage returns.
Sharon2: You were talking about the cost of research---my question was taking in to consideration the cost of gas, parking, time from work etc, how do you feel about subscription type genealogy sites?
DearMYRTLE: a VERY GOOD qquestion.
DearMYRTLE: I would recommend subscriptions to both http://www.ancestry.com
DearMYRTLE: and http://www.genealogy.com
DearMYRTLE: NOT for their "world Family Trees" (only heresay usually)
Sharon2: I have both...
DearMYRTLE: but for the databases which are just like INDEX BOOKS
MysteryMike: I have both as well
DearMYRTLE: Ancestry has some great ones, also the census images.
Bits: I have Ancestry only
DearMYRTLE: has many of the great index books from http://www.genealogical.com
DearMYRTLE: the books are cumbersome to hold, and flip through... why NOT let the computer do the job for you.
DearMYRTLE: I hope you are using http://www.familysearch.org
DearMYRTLE: to view the online catalog of what you can order in the way of
microfilm through your local LDS Family History Center.
DearMYRTLE: This is how I did a LOT of early parish records on my ENglish
families... and a lot of my Germans as well.
DearMYRTLE: I haven't been to england....
DearMYRTLE: but did go to GErmany. YES, I still went to all the little towns
where my ancestors once lived...
DearMYRTLE: but I planned my trip so I would spend MORE TIME in the places where
the church records HAD to be viewed IN PERSON.
MysteryMike: What would you recommend as the first step for researching "over the pond"?
DearMYRTLE: REVIEW EVERYTHING that is posted in the online RESEARCH OUTLINE From the LDS Family History Center
DearMYRTLE: the title of the Research Outline is: TRACING
IMMIGRANT ORIGINS...
DearMYRTLE: 1/2 is devoted to County of residence (here) and 1/2 is for county
of origin.
DearMYRTLE: Have you perhaps seen the paper version of the research outlines?
DearMYRTLE: they have one for each state and province.... and major countries of
the world.
DearMYRTLE: [url]http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp[url]
MysteryMike: By the way.... some other countries have put
census images online
Unk_Hiram: OK FOlks, Myrts Hour is almost up, So lets have ONE More Quick
Question for her
Unk_Hiram: BTW: PLease Remember to check out Myrt's site http://www.DearMyrtle.com
and check out her Radio Show
Unk_Hiram: Every Tuesday at 8PM CST
Sharon2: Many have researched for years and never attended a genealogy seminar , conference or workshop nor joined a gen soiciety---could you address the importance of these
Unk_Hiram: Myrt, There will be one more question after Sharon's ==== Bits had a really good question for you
DearMYRTLE: SHARON, I cannot overstress the importance of a
local genealogy society.
DearMYRTLE: I realize that nationally ranked genealogy conferences in distant
cities are more than likely out of most of our budgets of late....
DearMYRTLE: but the local genealogy society puts you in touch with......
DearMYRTLE: (I can take both , UNK)
DearMYRTLE: puts you in touch with:
DearMYRTLE: other genealogy nuts (like AA I guess???)
DearMYRTLE: people who know how to use genealogy softrware programs
DearMYRTLE: someone who can share info about web sites, etc.
DearMYRTLE: by getting together with people in YOUR area even when you don't
have ancestors from that area
DearMYRTLE: I GUARANTEE you will make connections with someone who perhaps knows
more about GENEALOGY MAIL LSTS
DearMYRTLE: or USING ANIMAP
DearMYRTLE: or HOW TO MERGE DUPLICATE INDIVIDUALS in your genealogy software
program, etc.
DearMYRTLE: usually these societies have an annual seminar of sorts.... where
there are a variety of classes
DearMYRTLE: for beginners, intermediates and advanced researchers.
DearMYRTLE: TAKE THE TIME to join.
DearMYRTLE: Don't expect the newsletter to be huge.... more and more societies
are realizing
Sharon2: Thanks DearMyrtle---well said :slap
Unk_Hiram: OK, Bits
---------------------------------------------------------------Last Question
Time
Bits: When are you coming back to the Cabin chats, Myrt?? :joy
DearMYRTLE: Hmm bits... I can certainly come back and visit
anytime. Sure do enjoy chatting with you all...
DearMYRTLE: more interested in what YOU ALL think about family history.
MysteryMike: We enjoy having you here
DearMYRTLE: isn't it GREAT to have these nice chat rooms?!!!!!
Bits: they are wonderful!!
DearMYRTLE: THANK-YOU Unk for inviting me!
DearMYRTLE: and to everyone for participating.....
Unk_Hiram: Anytime Myrt, You are always welcome in these chats
Unk_Hiram: Dont wait to be invited back, just drop by when you need a little Genealogical Boost
Sharon2: Thanks Myrt
DearMYRTLE: I enjoyed hearing about your research questions.... DearMYRTLE: DId you get to hear UNK on the internet radio show on Tuesday?
Bits: I did!!!!
DearMYRTLE: if not, it rebroadcasts at 8pmEastern US by going to http://www.DearMYRTLE.com
Bits: Myrt..... what time is the replay on Monday nights??
MysteryMike: Is that the guy that talked funny?
DearMYRTLE: amazing how that internet radio stuff works isn't
it Bits?!!!!!!
DearMYRTLE: 8pm Monday.
Unk_Hiram: Mike, LOL
Bits: Mike... I think he needs to work on that accent, don't you think????
DearMYRTLE: heheheheheheheheeeeeee//
DearMYRTLE: gotta go.... KEEP UP THE GOOD work over here you guys.
MysteryMike: He's fine, we all have the accent
DearMYRTLE: NEAT chat room design!
MysteryMike: Nite Myrtle
Unk_Hiram: Nite Myrt, and thanks for coming by
DearMYRTLE: very good friends here... easy to talk with.
DearMYRTLE: this means that it will be easy for people to ask your advice.
