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Canadian
Census
by Gordon Watts
Unk Hiram's Chat Cabins
January 22, 2003
GenHost Mike:
Welcome all, glad you could all make it tonight...
Unk_Hiram:
Ok folks, I guess we should get started
Unk_Hiram:
I wanna introduce Ya'll all to Gordon Watts (GWatts) He is the gentlemen that has
been trying to persuade the Canadian Govt. to release the Canadian Census.
So I am gonna turn it over to Gordon, to explain whats up
GWatts:
Thank you for inviting me here tonight. For those who do not know. Census
records in Canada past 1901 have been withheld by Statistics Canada because they
misinterpret legislation going back to 1905. We have been fighting this for five
years or more.
GenHost Mike:
Thank you Gordon for taking the time to be with us tonight. I am hoping you can
provide us with some insight into the ongoing struggle to have the Canadian 1906
census records released. And maybe answer questions from out chatters.
GWatts:
Thanks to the help of a great many people of the Internet, we have hopes that
we are approaching the end of our campaign.
GWatts:
We are expecting an announcement from Industry Minister Allan Rock this
Thursday.
GWatts:
Hopefully that announcement will give us at least part of what we have been
looking for.
GenHost Mike:
Gordon, can you tell us a little about what the dispute was about?
GWatts:
In Canada, records of Census up to 1901 have been available up to 1901.
Because of the position of our Chief Statistician, if we are unable to initiate
change in that policy, we would NEVER see another Census in Canada released to
the Public.
GWatts:
We have been lobbying our Parliamentary representatives for the past five
years seeking change to legislation to clarify that it has always been the
intention of the early government to release Census records.
GenHostSage:
Is there no freedom of information act in Canada
GWatts:
We have an equivalent to your Freedom of Information but it was not helpful
so far.
GenHost Mike:
What was the difference between 1906 and later censuses and those prior?
GWatts:
The difference - according to our Chief Statistician is that legislation in
1905 gave Instructions to Enumerators the "force of law" and they
claim that Instructions prior to that did not. They were wrong in this.
GWatts:
We have had a great deal of help from people in the US and other countries by
writing to our representatives, particularly Senator Lorna Milne, voicing
support. We have also a downloadable petition to be used by people outside of
Canada.
GenHost Mike:
So what will the 1906 and hopefully the release of 1911 provide for
genealogists?
GWatts:
Very much the same information contained in Cenuses for the US. Name, age,
dob, relationships in the family, and so on.
GenHostSage:
Can you give us an address for the petition?
GWatts:
http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census
GenHost Mike:
Was 1906 census all of Canada?
GWatts:
No. The 1906 covered only the Western Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and
Manitoba. It was a particularly important Census because it was the first after
Alberta and Saskatchewan became provinces.
GenHost Mike:
I can see how that would be important for those researching the western
provinces..... how about 1911?
GWatts:
The first decade of the last century saw an influx of more than 1.8 million
immigrants to Canada -- most to the western areas so the 1906 and 1911 Censuses
are particularly important... 1911 was a National Census.
GenHost Mike: Is that going to be another fight?
GWatts:
The 1911 could very well be another fight - depending on the content of
legislation about to be brought down shortly
GenHost Mike:
I believe Canada is a 92 year waiting period... do you believe that is
sufficient? Ours is 72 years, and believe England is 100
GWatts:
Many would like to see a much shorter period but that is unlikely to happen.
Some feel 30 years would be sufficient. I would like to see us match the 72
years of the US. England, Wale, Scotland are 100 years.
GWatts:
New Zealand and Australia are fighting the immediate destruction of their
census.
Unk_Hiram:
Destruction of their Census?
ABQAnn:
What is their reasoning for destruction in NZ and Australia?
GenHostSage:
What do you mean by the destruction of census in the countries you named
GWatts:
I cannot say about NZ, but Australia was originally colonized by sending
convicts to the new land. It is supposed that is the biggest reason. It may be
similar for New Zealand.
GWatts:
Australia has traditionally destroyed their records immediately following
statistical compilation.
GenHostSage:
Do they really want to erase from record their census info
GWatts:
Australia has had only one Census (2001) that has not been destroyed. In 2001
they had a check box for retention and release after 100 years.
GenHost Mike:
Can you tell us what the statistician's argument was/is? I believe many
government officials in Canada were on your side.
GWatts:
The Chief Statistican's arguement was that a promise of confidentiality in
perpetuity was given to the people of Canada in 1905. He has been unable to
produce any evidence of the promise and has in more recent times been based more
on the integrity of StatCan.
GenHost Mike:
Didn't you also have to fight to keep government from destroying the 1906
census?
GWatts:
StatCan denies that there has been any attempt to destroy Census records but
information through Access to Information proved otherwise. None have been
destroyed.
GenHost Mike:
Assuming you win your fight (hopefully this week), how long will it take before
researchers could view the records?
GenHostSage:
I would think they would want to have their records available for histories sake
GWatts:
It would depend on how long it takes to prepare the records for release. How
long that would take I do not know. Hopefully not long.
GenHost Mike:
Was there a compromise that was previously offered, that you also fought
against?
GWatts:
We were offered what they claimed was a compromise. It was nothing of the
kind and we rejected it out of hand.
sammy:
will we be getting the outcome of Thurs. announcement on the list site
GenHost Mike:
What can you tell us about this coming Thursday....
GWatts:
Be assured that I will be posting the result of Thursday's announcement load
and clear. On the Post 1901 website and the mail lists. You may be able to hear
me without the Internet if it is what we hope.
gab:
I am always leery about government promises, especially in a case like this
where it has resisted genealogist's requests for so long. We must be alert to
insure that we get the same kind of convenient, open and complete access that we
have for pre-1906
ABQAnn:
Do you know the results of the Aussie check box in 2001?
GWatts:
The Australian census checkbox had a response of about 54% Yes. A bit
disappointing but a step in the right direction. This was for the 2001 Census
only and they are still fighting for release of future Census.
Sharon:
Are your interests in the release of the census for genealogical value only or
for other uses as well?
GenHost Mike:
How did you personally get involved in this struggle?
GWatts:
My personal interest is for genealogical purposes. However much of our
support comes from the Historical and academic communities as well. They have a
great interest in it.
GWatts:
I became involved in genealogy in 1990. When I learned in 1998 that no
further Census records would be released I started posting occasion messages on
four mailing lists. It expanded greatly from there.
GenHost Mike:
I'm sure it will be a great weight off your shoulders, and you should be
commended for the great job you have done
ABQAnn:
Thanks, GWatts from those of us who NEED those post 1901 records to put our
family together!
GWatts:
Nothing could be accomplish without the help of a great many others. I may be a
leader of this because of my vocal postings on the subject., but nothing could
have been accomplished without every one else.
GWatts:
Mike. From your questions it would appear that you are pretty well up on the
issue yourself.
GenHost Mike:
I like to be prepared.... but don't know much about Canadian census prior....
can you tell some of us that don't know, what is available?
GenHost Mike:
Were the censuses usually done every decade?
GWatts:
If it were up to our current Chief Statistician Census records in Canada
would never be released.
GWatts:
Even should the announcement expected on Thursday give us access to the 1906
records, that would not finish our effort. We would still have to deal with
legislation expected to be brought down shortly to deal with continued release
on a regular basis
GWatts:
That legislation is likely to have some strings and conditions unacceptable
to us and we would have to convince our Parliamentary representatives to propose
amendments to remvove them.
GWatts:
If we are successful in our efforts, the 1911 records should be released by the
end of the year. We are committed to staying with it until we are successful.
GWatts:
It has been a long five years in our campaign and a number of us have put our
genealogy on hold for the duration of the campaign.
gab:
Gordon Watts has been doing a great job in leading efforts to get these censuses
released. Without him, we would not be on the verge of getting access now, or
perhaps ever.
ABQAnn:
Sorry, Gordon, don't think you can retire. Sounds like we need a GLOBAL
campaign.
GenHost Mike:
I need to follow one of my lines into Canada, would there be a census for 1861
available?
GWatts:
There is information from the 1861 Census available but how complete they are
I could not say. Do a search for the National Archives of Canada and go from
there.
Torra:
It seems to me that some of the mentioned records are easier to look at in BC
then in other Prov..
Sharon:
Are census the only issue? Forgive me, I am totally ignorant about Canadian
research, are births, deaths, divorces etc accessible?
GWatts:
BMDs are a provincial responsibility in Canada as they are a State
responsibility in the US. British Columbia has specified periods of closure but
after that period they are indexed and accessible on the net. Other provinces
have their own rules and so far as I know, no other provinces have their indexes
on line.
Torra:
no they sure do not
GenHost Mike:
Is entire family on the censuses? or just head of household?
GWatts:
The
first Census of Canada was that for New France in 1666. All records that
survive currently reside in the National Archives and are accessible by anyone
for purposes of research.
GWatts:
I am not sure exactly when the change took place but up to a certain point the
Census was only head of household. After that point it was the whole family. The
NA site details what was available for each Census up to 1901.
GenHost Mike:
Gordon, again I thank you for taking the time to inform and update us on the
1906 census happenings as well as the other information you have provided.
GWatts:
Any other questions? Can I elaborate on anything else?
Unk_Hiram:
Gordon, I want to thank you for joining us tonight
sammy:
what will happen if we don't get the outcome we want on Thurs
GWatts:
If not, I am grateful for the interest shown -- not just tonight, but through
the past five years of our campaign. As I said before, without the help of many
thousands of people we would have accomplished nothing.
LadyDi:
Thank for your efforts in having post 1901 census released and I will look
forward to seeing your good news on Thursday on the mailing list
GenHost Mike:
You should be congratulated on the great strides you have made for genealogists
everywhere
Unk_Hiram:
I think we have all learned something
GenHost Mike:
I know I learned alot....
GWatts:
My pleasure. I will be posting as soon as I am advised the announcement has
been made
GWatts:
I will stick around for a bit longer if there might be other questions.
GenHost Mike:
For those new to our chat, I welcome you again, can you tell us where you heard
of the Cabins?
GenHost Mike:
Cabin Chatter: Don’t have a private jet to whisk you around the states to get
those valuable documents. Find a volunteer in the place you are researching… http://www.raogk.org/
GWatts:
When it is released we hope that, like the 1901 Census, scans of it will be
accessible online through the National Archives
GenHost Mike:
Cabin Chatter: When asking for help from others, remember that they don’t know
your family as well as you… Give details that help them, help you.
maddog:
How long have you been pursuing this , Gordon
GWatts:
I
first became aware of the situation about Feb of 1998. I have been working
on it since then.
maddog:
Wow, great perseverance and thank you
GWatts:
You are welcome. But I did not do it alone.
GWatts:
Well people, if there are no other questions I have some updating to do on
the Post 1901 Census Project
website. My thanks to Unk for inviting me here
tonight.
Unk_Hiram:
Gordon it was our pleasure
GenHost Mike:
Gordon, thank you so much......
GWatts:
If the occasion should come up again I will be happy to come back. Happy
Hunting to all, and to all a good night.
