Haplogroup R1b (DYS390=23)
The Atlantic Modal Haplotype has many variants. Any basic haplotype that differs from
the AMH values of 14-12-24-11-13-13 by a single step, on any marker, in any direction, is
still considered part of AMH. Most of the haplotypes below exhibit the basic marker
values 14-12-23-11-13-13, which puts them in that category.
The Heyer study of 1997 recorded a mutation rate of zero for DYS390 and DYS393.
Although the DYS390 marker has not exhibited a mutation rate as consistently low as
DYS393 in other studies, the results of the Heyer study suggest that it is a relatively
stable marker. As such, particular values of DYS390 may be acquired less often by
random mutation, and therefore may be more likely to reflect a shared ancestry among
the haplotypes that exhibit them.
Although the Atlantic Modal Haplotype unquestionably originated in Western Europe,
Western Europe is a large place notorious for its cultural diversity. Most scientists apply
Occam's Razor when speculating about the origin of R1b haplotypes found among
persons of British descent. They say that, since the original population of Britain was
most likely R1b, then a person of British descent with that haplotype is descended from
that population.
We think that is a simplistic approach. Also, since we are not scientists and have no
reputation to protect, we are free to speculate a little more adventurously. We have analyzed the
geographical match patterns of DYS390=23 haplotypes in the YSTR, and then compared them
with the geographical match patterns of more modal AMH variations.
We have reached the conclusion that, although DYS390=23 haplotypes may indeed still have
an origin among the aboriginal or "Celtic" natives of Britain, they are more likely than many other
AMH variations to have arrived in Britain from somewhere else. In this case, from the homeland
of the Anglo-Saxons and the Danes - in Denmark, the northern coast of The Netherlands, and
western and northern Germany. This is entirely feasible in view of the fact that up to 40 and 50
percent of the haplotypes found in these areas are R1b.
This haplotype is only one step away from the most common Atlantic Modal Haplotype variation in the
YSTR database. It is very common, appearing everywhere in Europe. Nonetheless, of the ten highest
frequencies among the old world samples, the highest is in Denmark, another is among Inuit with
(presumably) Danish blood, three are in The Netherlands, and two are in Western Germany. Additional
hits include Belgian and Swiss locales adjacent to German-speaking areas. Only one of the top ten
old world frequencies falls in Iberia.
These are followed by lesser frequencies in many other Germanic, Dutch and Scandinavian samples.
Some of the actual numbers of matches are quite large. Berlin has 16 matches, for instance, in a
sample size of 549, and Chemnitz, Saxony has 24 matches out of 820. Although the actual frequencies
are not among the highest, the sheer number of matches is impressive.
The haplotype, despite belonging to R1b, suggests an origin among the Anglo-Saxons or the Danes.
Nonetheless, an origin among the Celtic population of Britain is also possible - as always with R1b.
| 19 | 389i | 389ii | 390 | 391 | 392 | 393 | 385a | 385b |
| 14 | 13 | 29 | 23 | 11 | 13 | 13 | 11 | 14 |
Geographical Locale |
% |
| Louisiana [European-American] | 6.45 |
| Denmark | 6.35 |
| Strasbourg, Alsace | 6.06 |
| Brussels, Belgium | 4.80 |
| Lausanne, Western Switzerland | 4.63 |
| Netherlands | 4.59 |
| Cajun [European-American] | 4.55 |
| Florida [European-American] | 4.55 |
| Cologne, Westphalia | 4.44 |
| Northern Portugal | 4.39 |
| Greenland [Inuit] | 4.35 |
| Zeeland, Southwestern Netherlands | 4.35 |
| Leiden, Western Netherlands | 4.17 |
| Texas [European-American] | 3.85 |
| Central Portugal | 3.24 |
| Pennsylvania [Hispanic-American] | 3.13 |
| Cordoba, Argentina | 3.00 |
| Chemnitz, Saxony | 2.93 |
| Berlin, Brandenburg | 2.91 |
| Texas [African-American] | 2.89 |
| Mainz, Rhineland-Palatinate | 2.88 |
| London, England | 2.83 |
| Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg | 2.77 |
| Madrid, Central-East Spain | 2.70 |
| Tyrol, Western Austria | 2.62 |
| Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt | 2.47 |
| Vasterbotten, Sweden | 2.44 |
| Munich, Bavaria | 2.39 |
| Varmland, Sweden | 2.33 |
| Asturias, Northern Spain | 2.22 |
| Northern Norway | 2.22 |
| Lombardy, Northern Italy | 2.19 |
| Valencia, Eastern Spain | 2.14 |
| Oregon [African-American] | 2.13 |
| Skaraborg, Sweden | 2.13 |
| Groningen, Northern Netherlands | 2.08 |
| Munster, Westphalia | 2.04 |
| Zagreb, Croatia | 2.00 |
| Friesland, Northern Netherlands | 2,27 |
| New York City [European-American] | 1.94 |
| Connecticut [Hispanic-American] | 1.92 |
| Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] | 1.79 |
| Southern Portugal | 1.79 |
| Missouri [European-American] | 1.69 |
| Veneto, Northern Italy | 1.67 |
| Virginia [European-American] | 1.64 |
| Maryland [European-American] | 1.56 |
| Western Norway | 1.56 |
| Budapest, Hungary | 1.52 |
| Pyrenees, Spain | 1.52 |
| Pennsylvania [European-American] | 1.49 |
| Guarani, Argentina [Amerindians] | 1.47 |
| Puglia, Southern Italy | 1.43 |
| Maryland [African-American] | 1.37 |
| Leipzig, Saxony | 1.36 |
| Latium, Central Italy | 1.35 |
| Barcelona, Catalonia | 1.34 |
| Dusseldorf, Westphalia | 1.33 |
| Sweden | 1.23 |
| Emilia Romagna, Central Italy | 1.12 |
| Bern, Switzerland | 1.09 |
| Greifswald, Pomerania | 1,44 |
| Santiago de Compostela, Galicia | .97 |
| Krakow, Southern Poland | .93 |
| Southern Ireland | .93 |
| Hamburg, Northern Germany | .88 |
| Warsaw, Central Poland | .83 |
| Zaragoza, Aragon | .83 |
| London, England [Afro-Caribbean] | .79 |
| Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg | .65 |
| Vilnius, Lithuania | .64 |
| Turkey | .63 |
| Andulacia, Southern Spain | .61 |
| Bydgoszcz, Northern Poland | .59 |
| Northern Spain [Basque] | .59 |
| Antioqua, Colombia | .49 |
| Rostock, Mecklenburg | .49 |
| Gdansk, Northern Poland | ,74 |
R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #2
Of the top five European frequencies for this haplotype, one is in southern Scandinavia, two are
in Western Germany, and two are in The Netherlands. Of the thirty samples where matches occurred,
only six represented Iberian populations, mostly in Portugal and eastern Spain. No Basques. Half
represented populations among Germanic language speakers, and three were in Eastern Europe.
Both of the Italian locales have a history of Lombard settlement, and all of the Iberian areas have
a history of Suebian or Visigothic control.
A person from Britain with this haplotype may have a Celtic origin, but it is equally likely
his paternal ancestors arrived with the Anglo-Saxons.
| 19 | 389i | 389ii | 390 | 391 | 392 | 393 | 385a | 385b |
| 14 | 13 | 29 | 23 | 11 | 13 | 13 | 11 | 15 |
Geographical Locale |
% |
| Southern Norway | 4.00 |
| Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg | 3.22 |
| Oregon [European-American] | 2.86 |
| Friesland, Northern Netherlands | 2.27 |
| Leiden, Western Netherlands | 2.08 |
| Munster, Westphalia | 2.04 |
| Marche, Eastern Italy | 1.85 |
| Missouri [African-American] | 1.79 |
| Vienna, Austria | 1.52 |
| Valencia, Eastern Spain | 1.43 |
| Bogota, Colombia | 1.36 |
| Bern, Switzerland | 1.09 |
| Transylvania [Szekely] | 1.02 |
| Szeged, Hungary | 1.00 |
| Southern Ireland | .93 |
| Tuscany, Central Italy | .92 |
| Southern Portugal | .89 |
| Cologne, Westphalia | .74 |
| Madgeburg, Saxony-Anhalt | .71 |
| Dusseldorf, Westphalia | .67 |
| New York City [European-American] | .65 |
| Chemnitz, Saxony | .61 |
| Central Portugal | .54 |
| Rostock, Mecklenburg | .49 |
| Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg | .46 |
| Barcelona, Catalonia | .45 |
| Leipzig, Saxony | .45 |
| Warsaw, Central Poland | .42 |
| Antioqua, Colombia | .25 |
| Berlin, Brandenburg | .18 |
R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #3
Of the top ten frequencies in Europe, three are in Scandinavia, two are in the Netherlands,
and four are in Germany or areas adjacent to Germany, such as Austria and Western Poland.
Out of 24 locales, only three are associated with Iberians, and most of the rest of the hits
are in Germany.
This haplotype, although R1b, distinctly suggests an origin among the Danes, the
Norse or the Anglo-Saxons. Interestingly, this pattern is very similar to that displayed
by the Atlantic Modal Haplotype variation 14-13-29-24-11-13-13-11-13.
| 19 | 389i | 389ii | 390 | 391 | 392 | 393 | 385a | 385b |
| 14 | 13 | 29 | 23 | 11 | 13 | 13 | 11 | 13 |
Geographical Locale |
% |
| Gotland, Sweden | 2.44 |
| Netherlands | 2.29 |
| Friesland, Northern Netherlands | 2.27 |
| Denmark | 1.59 |
| Graz, Styria | 1.54 |
| Dusseldorf, Westphalia | 1.33 |
| Texas [European-American] | 1.28 |
| Eastern Norway | 1.18 |
| Caceres, Central-West Spain | 1.09 |
| Tyrol, Western Austria | .87 |
| Wroclaw, Western Poland | .83 |
| Brussels, Belgium | .80 |
| Cologne, Westphalia | .74 |
| Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg | .69 |
| Madrid, Central-East Spain | .68 |
| New York City [African-American] | .67 |
| Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg | .65 |
| Northern Portugal | .55 |
| Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] | .45 |
| London, England | .40 |
| Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt | .35 |
| Berlin, Brandenburg | .18 |
| Leipzig, Saxony | .15 |
| Chemnitz, Saxony | .12 |
This haplotype exhibits high frequencies in Scandinavian, Dutch and Germanic areas, but it also
has hits in classic Celtic areas such as Galicia and Western Switzerland. It shows hits among
Portuguese samples as well.
The rule of thumb for R1b haplotypes appearing in Britain is that they originated locally.
The clearest examples of aboriginal British haplotypes usually exhibit healthy hit rates in
Iberia - especially among Basques - and in the Irish or London samples. This haplotype
could fall in that category, or it may have come to Britain with the arrival of Celtic
culture about 500 B.C.E.
A mixture of hits clustering around Portugal, the southern Netherlands and the Rhine could
indicate ancestry among groups as disparate as the East German Suebians (or Suevi) or
the Sephardic Jews, each of whom settled in such places. Such a haplotype would have
arrived in Britain with the Flemish or the Anglo-Saxons.
A Scandinavian origin remains a possibility, due to the high frequencies in Sweden and
Denmark, but these frequencies occur among small samples and what they suggest is
by no means certain.
| 19 | 389i | 389ii | 390 | 391 | 392 | 393 | 385a | 385b |
| 14 | 13 | 29 | 23 | 11 | 13 | 13 | 12 | 14 |
Geographical Locale |
% |
| Blekinge, Sweden | 2.38 |
| Connecticut [Hispanic-American] | 1.92 |
| Missouri [African-American] | 1.79 |
| Denmark | 1.59 |
| Graz, Styria | 1.54 |
| Bern, Switzerland | 1.09 |
| Leiden, Western Netherlands | 1.04 |
| Madeira, Portugal | 1.02 |
| Santiago de Compostela, Galicia | .97 |
| Lausanne, Western Switzerland | .93 |
| Southern Portugal | .89 |
| Cologne, Westphalia | .74 |
| Dusseldorf, Westphalia | .67 |
| Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg | .65 |
| Berlin, Brandenburg | .55 |
| Northern Portugal | .55 |
| Munster, Westphalia | .51 |
| Rostock, Mecklenburg | .49 |
| Chemnitz, Saxony | .37 |
| Antioquia, Colombia | .25 |
| Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] | .22 |
| Gdansk, Northern Poland | .18 |
| Leipzig, Saxony | .15 |