--------- Forwarded message ---------- From: KEYVANOR@aol.com To: RUTLEDGE-L@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 01:24:49 EDT Subject: [RUTLEDGE] Re:Flora MacDonald British Heritage magazine past issue of last 1 or 2 yrs had biography/o Flora MacDonald. A library w/a cy/o Periodical articles would have date, & could be looked up. British Heritage sells back cys. Address: PO Box 420235, Palm Coast, FL 32142-0235. $6 each or call: 1-800-358-632. Flora a native/o Skye, aft Battle/o Culloden Moor, 1745: migrated >NC, @ srart/o American Rev declared herself a Tory (strange for a rebel) & went back >Scotland. immortalized in the folk song, "The Skye Boat" --"Sail bonnie boat over the sea, over the sea to Skye." A good version sung by the Canadian, John McDermott on "The Danny Boy Collection," distributed by The Beautiful Music Company 320 Main St. Northport NY. CD IRD BMD-156. It is about Flora helping to smuggle Charles Stuart, the Scot pretender to the throne/o ENG, to the island/o Skye off the NW coast/o Scotland & fm there >EURO. Flora, was a native/o Skye. Husband was a wanted man. Aft Scots lost the battle/o Culloden Moor, never to win another on British soil, the Bonnie Prince Charlie, & many Scot participant survivors fled for their lives. Some >EURO, many >American colonies. 1st large scale immigration >America/o Highland Scots. Most Scot immigrants bef 1746 came fm eastern lowlands/o Scotland >Ireland >America, + many came directly fm Scotland also. Keith ------- From: Richard A Rutledge To: RUTLEDGE-L@rootsweb.com Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:29:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [RUTLEDGE] Battle of Flodden 1513 Fred, I saw the ref abt Flora MacDonald living in the Carolinas, & returning >Scotland in a video tape abt Scotland on TV. Ref: King James the V1of Scotland became King James the 1st/o ENG Or the UK. He was next in line aft Queen Elizabeth/o ENG died. His mother was Queen Mary/o Scotland. Queen Elizabeth beheaded her cousin Queen Mary on false charges because she was catholic. King James 1 was raised to be a protestant. He also was credited with creating the King James version/o the Bible. He was into sending protestant Scots & others to Ireland ( The Plantations). Scotland lost some battles to the English but were not defeated by them. Cheerio Richard Armstrong Rutledge --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cathy Casper" To: KINNEY-L@rootsweb.com Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:16:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [KINNEY] Battle of Flodden 1513/Battle of Culloden 1745 I shook my head when I read this. The writer is correct abt Battle/o Flodden being in 1513. Mr. Rutledge is confusing the Battle of Flodden w/the Battle/o Culloden in 1745. Aft British defeated the Scottish Highlanders, the McDonald Clan, & maybe some members/o the MacKinnon Clan also located on the Isle/o Skye, helped Bonnie Prince Charlie escape,dressed as a woman. Do a Google search for Bonnie Prince Charles &/or Flora MacDonald & find this story. Flora MacDonald is supposed to have personally helped Prince Charles escape. He posed as her maid, or something. After this battle, the Clan system/o Scottish Highlanders was defeated. Nobody was allowed to show allegiance to a clan, wear any/o their Clan's Tartans or carry a Clan Flag. It was over 150 yrs bef the Clan system was revived & only for social reasons. Many Scottish Highlanders were offered land in the colonies by the Crown to get them out/o the British Isles. Choices: that; spend life in prison: or be executed. Many chose to come to the colonies. Many settled in what is now Cumberland Co NC. There are all kinds of land records to substantiate this. Bef they could obtain their land grant fm the Crown; they had to sign an oath that they would never again take up arms against the British Crown. They did so, unhappily, to escape Britain & start a new life. W/o any idea/o the Revolutionary brewings in the colonies. Flora MacDonald was arrested & put into the Tower/o London. She was there for a yr, I believe. She & her husband, cousin Alexander MacDonald were allowed to migrate >America. They had a land grant in Cumberland Co NC, & settled there until Rev. War. There is a school named for her in NC (2002). Scots who came >America as a result/o the Battle of Culloden fought for the British in the ARWar. Flora MacDonald is known helping the British @ this time. If this seems strange, consider what these Scots went through. Plus, most/o the world thought the British would win. Some/o these Scots wanted to be on the 'correct' side/o the British in the ARW as they were almost decimated at the Battle/o Culloden. The history/o the Battle of Moore's Creek tells more about this. The Highlanders, fighting for the British, attacked an American army there. This Battle took place in eastern NC near where the Highlanders were settled. For more info, do a Google search for the Battle/o Moore's Creek (I have been to battleground & have.) Aft ARW, these Scots were again rounded up & ret >ENG (deported in today's vernacular). They were stripped/o their land grants fm the King. Flora MacDonald, husband & sons were among these Scots. They sailed >Britain by way/o CAN. Flora MacDonald was only in CAN a short time, on ret >Scotland & lived out life in Scotland, is buried there. You can visit her grave site today (2002). She is considered a Scottish heroine & There are portraits/o her. ?search web. ?thought by some her sister, Ann MacDonald m.into MacKinnon/MacKinney fam, not sure when?. ?maybe m.son/o Mordecai MacKinney in NJ early 1700s (no proof/o this, but some evidence. Bad feelings bet Scots & the English go further back than 1513, to days/o William Wallace & King Edward "Longshanks". Scots who came >America BEF the migration due to the Battle/o Culloden could have fought for the American Army. Many/o these Scots escaped fm Scotland thru Ireland, thus the term "Scots-Irish". Scots who came >America aft 1745 till the ARW are called the "Highlanders." They were predominantly Presbyterian. In my home town, there are 2-Presbyterian churches, founded in the mid to late 1700s by Scottish "Highlanders"/their written history. CC's McDowell ancestors (Clan MacDhoughall) were Scots-Irish & fought for the Americans. Gen. Charles MacDowell & Col. Joseph MacDowell fought at the Battle/o Kings Mountain, won by the Americans. Other branches/o that family, James & John MacDowell, fought w/Gen Frances Marion in SC. Fm Cumberland Co history & Battle of Moore's Creek, find many Scots w/last names/o MacDonald, MacKinnon, McKinney & Kinney who fought there for the British. That does not mean that every McKinney/Kinney did. Many McKinney's/Kinney's in America long bef the Battle/o Culloden. There are also many McKinney/Kinney's on the DAR Patriot Index. CC,s William Kinney is one/o them & CC joined DAR under WK. Most/o info above was part/o a DAR program on the ARW in eastern NC, given at a chapter meeting in 2001. Cumberland Co NC still exists but not in its original form. It is noted today as the home/o Ft Bragg, NC. CC wrote fm memory at this point, CC has specific citations, & will share if necessary. BTW "Scotch" is an alcoholic beverage. "Scots" or "Scotsman" is the term used for people/o Scotland, & the adjective is "Scottish". Cathy Moore Casper Sanford, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: [KINNEY] Battle of Flodden 1513 > Hi, For info of interested list subscribers: > an e-reply to the haury1@juno.com post request for info on Flora > MacDonald > > *e-reply (w/o sender ID)* > The Battle of Flodden was in 1513 not 1745. The famous Flora MacDonald > was born at Milton, Outer Uist, The Hebrides [west of Isle of Skye] in > 1722. > > I have read nothing about Flora being in Canada except in this email. > Her husband was reportedly captured during the ARW (American Revolution > War) and was jailed in Canada until the war was over where upon most > sources have him joining Flora in Scotland. > > + Cy of Attachment received w/e-reply. > reference: > http://www.scotclans.com/clans/1513.htm > ---- For info of interested list subscribers: an e-reply to the haury1@juno.com post request for info on Flora MacDonald *e-reply (w/o sender ID)* The Battle of Flodden was in 1513 not 1745. The famous Flora MacDonald was born at Milton, Outer Uist, The Hebrides [west of Isle of Skye] in 1722. I have read nothing about Flora being in Canada except in this email. Her husband was reportedly captured during the ARW (American Revolution War) and was jailed in Canada until the war was over where upon most sources have him joining Flora in Scotland. + Cy of Attachment received w/e-reply. reference: http://www.scotclans.com/clans/1513.htm ---- Battle of Flodden 1513 Flodden was a disastrous and unnecessary confrontation for Scotland. James IV of Scotland was married to the sister of England’s King Henry VIII and a treaty of friendship existed between their countries. The auld alliance between Scotland and France had been recently renewed. There had been English attacks made upon Scottish ships at the time when Henry VIII, on behalf of the papacy, invaded France. James IV declared war immediately, with nothing to gain and ties to both England and France that their war neutralised. With the whole nation behind him, James amassed twenty thousand men with ease, both Highlanders and Lowlanders. His fleet set sail and his army crossed the border into Northumberland with the intention of drawing upon England’s numbers in France. Norham Castle was among the places captured before confronting the English defenders, led by the Earl of Surrey and his son, west of the River Till, near Branxton, on 9 September. The Scots took the advantageous high ground. With slightly fewer numbers but superior equipment and artillery, the English moved around the Scots on their west and opened with cannon fire. They struck their target with great success, which the Scots could not match. James dropped strategic tactics and ordered all to attack. Initially gaining the upper hand, the Scots were again thwarted by England’s superior equipment, the long halberd with its axe, hook and spike bloodier than the spear in hand-to-hand conflict. English losses were heavy but the dead Scots numbered between five and ten thousand. It is said that ‘the slaughter struck every farm and household throughout lowland Scotland’. There was an unusually high number of aristocracy who came down into combat that day and among the slain were dozens of lords and lairds, at least ten Earls, some abbots, an archbishop and the body of the King himself. ------Forwarded Orig' Posts----------- Hi Richard & all, Request any info that you may share, &/or URL references on Flora McDonald. Especially with connections to KINNEY, McKINNEY, MacKINZIE &/or similar surnames. Fred haury1@juno.com ABQ NM >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:47:36 -0700 Richard A Rutledge writes: General George Washingtons Army was composed/of mostly Scots & Scots Irish ( Ulster Scots) They joined this army because they hated the English. Especially the Highlanders, that immigrated to North America after defeat at the battle/o Flodden in 1745.( the reformation was in full bloom) Although there was a great deal/o those loyal to the Crown especially in VA & Carolinas. They were mostly fm the Borders/o Scotland & helped the English defeat the Highlanders. (Highlanders at that time were mostly catholic) After the ARW late 1700s. Some Scots returned >Scotland. Although most/o them went >CAN. So the missing link to your brick wall maybe in Canada. One famous Scot that ret >Scotland was Flora McDonald who helped Bonnie Prince Charley escape the English Army, after the battle/o Flodden. > Richard > RichRutledge@juno.com