The Lambeth Fishers

My Family History

The Lambeth Fishers

It would have been misleading to represent my family as “of Lambeth” but equally ours was one of several Fisher families in 19th century Lambeth. Put simply, this is where they made their homes and pursued their livelihoods for a period of at least 100 years from the first positive documentary record in 1816 through to the 1920s before dispersing throughout the Home Counties and in one case to Australia.

The purpose of this website is to publish a summary of my family history research in the hope that members of other collateral branches can recognize a connection with our family and, more importantly, that someone will offer the means to overcome the brickwall that has stalled the discovery of our deep ancestry.

An English family might expect an origin stretching back to the 14th century when hereditary surnames were first adopted. The reality, however, is that this is limited to very few families and very unlikely to include those with an occupational surname such as Fisher. In fact I know of only one Fisher family with a documentary record as far back as the mid 13th century—this is exceptional.

My research has brought the antiquity of the family no further than the early 19th century—some four or five centuries short of our surname ancestor! The inevitable result of the attrition of the documentary record. Of course, we may be Fishers through an earlier non-paternity event such as illegitimacy or we may be 18th century continental immigrants who anglicized their names. These are possibilities but their likelihood is relatively small.

ORIGINS

A.1 John Fisher, coachman, our earliest known ancestor, first appears in St Mary Lambeth, London between1816 and 1820. Then in 1821 at Cursitor Street, St Andrew Holborn, Middlesex. His wife was Elizabeth by whom his children were:

B.1 David Herbert Fisher (born Chetwode, about 1810, baptised Lambeth 29 December 1816, died Lambeth 8 October 1868). His death certificate was witnessed by Eliza Fisher who could have been his daughter or daughter-in-law. David was described in various certificates, directories and census returns as surgeon, green grocer, chemist and druggist. There is, however, no record of him in any of the professional bodies at the time. He married firstly (3 Jan 1832) Mary Hosier who died January 1840 and secondly her sister (26 April 1840) Sarah Hosier (alive 1871), daughters of Joseph and Susanna Hosier. His first marriage was witnessed by John Fisher and Jane Fisher who have not been identified. On the certificate of his second marriage his fathers occupation is given as gentleman. His children were:

C1. Eliza aged 8 in 1841, no trace thereafter.

C2. Susanna Margaret baptised 8 April 1836 (St John the Evangelist, Waterloo, Lambeth). Aged 5 (1841 ). A marriage is recorded on 10 July 1855 at St George the Martyr, Southwark between Susannah Margaret Fisher, daughter of David Chapman Fisher, surgeon, to Alfred Brown, cabinet maker, son of Thomas Brown, Tripe Dresser, witnessed by David Chetward Fisher or David Chetwind Fisher and Ellen Brown. It is not absolutely certain that this marriage record applies to our family.

C3. Sophia Mary Fisher born 3 November 1839 (Mason Street, Lambeth). Married 22 May 1864 at St George the Martyr, Southwark to Albert Smith, Master Butcher, son of William Smith, Gentleman.

C4. David Herbert Fisher

C5. John Chetwynd Fisher (born 5 March & died August 1844, Lambeth).

C6. John Charles Fisher

C7. Frederick James Fisher

B2. John Fisher baptised 29 December 1816, Lambeth.

B3. Susanna Fisher baptised 29 Dec 1816, Lambeth.

B4. Henry William Fisher baptised 1817, Lambeth.

B4. George Fisher baptised 1820, Lambeth.

B5. Sarah Fisher baptised 18 May 1821, St Andrew Holborn.

B6. Mary Ann Fisher baptised 17 March 1822, Lambeth.

The Fishers of Chetwynd

The occurrence of the name Chetwynd in our family is intriguing but as yet cannot be explained. The association between Chetwynd also occurs in another Fisher family.

Frederick Fisher (b.1816), Curate of Downham, Cambridgeshire, was a descendant of an ancient family with origins in Staffordshire and Cumbria. He was the fourth son of Robert Fisher , J.P., of Chetwynd, Salop, (b.1775).

Frederick had a son Chetwynd Fisher who was born 7 September 1858 at Chetwynd Lodge, Chetwynd, Shropshire and who died 14 January 1859 at Downham Rectory. In this case it can be explained why this child was named “Chetwynd”.

It is more problematic to explain the naming of John Chetwynd Fisher 14 years earlier in 1844. Was it a whimsical choice by David Herbert Fisher, had he heard of the Fishers of Chetwynd? And fancifully christened his son based on an illusion of kinship. Or did the family originate from that part of the Shropshire/ Staffordshire borders and hence choose the name to remind them of their origins? And who was David Chetw[in/ar]d Fisher who witnessed Susannah Margaret Fisher’s marriage certificate in 1855?

DESCENDANTS & COLLATERALS

These are the descendants of David Herbert Fisher (B1). Only the descendants of John Henry Fisher (D5) and David William Fisher (D6) to the present day are known. There are several potential lines of descent of which I have no information.

C4. David Herbert Fisher born 9 August 1841, Lambeth. Occupations included Brass Fitter, Iron Turner, Porter, Labourer. Last known record in 1901 census as Widower living in Rowton House. Married Ellen/ Eliza Drake (certificate not traced) His children were:

D1. Mary Sophia Ann Fisher born 1864/5 alive 1901, married (certificate not traced) Robert W Hall, builders’ labourer.

D2. Frederick James Fisher born 1867/8, Lambeth – no record after 1881 probably died (unmarried?) in 1890.

D3. Emma Rose Fisher born 26 August 1869 Lambeth.

D4. David A (lbert?) Fisher (born 1873, Lambeth) – unmarried, living with sister in 1901, occupation – Patent Iron Lattice Gate Maker.

C6. John Charles Fisher (born 24 September 1845 & died (“Apoplexy & Heart failure”) 12 May 1915, Lambeth). Married 28 November 1869 Elizabeth Wesley. His children were:

D5. John Henry Fisher (born 1870, Lambeth) – living descendants

D6. David William Fisher (born 1 October 1872, Lambeth, died 1965) journeyman walking stick dresser/ maker – living descendants

D7. Louisa Elizabeth Fisher.

D8. Albert Edward Fisher (born 1878, Lambeth) – last known record 1901 census at home , occupation Steam Engine Maker

D9. Charles Fisher died in infancy

D10. Arthur Frederick Fisher (born 1882, Lambeth) - last known record 1901 census at home , occupation “Cartridge Maker Fire”

D11. Emily Fisher died 1886 in infancy.

D12. James Frederick Fisher (born 1887, Lambeth) - last known record 1901 census at home with parents, occupation Lamp Maker.

D13. Nellie Sophia Fisher – aged 11 in 1901.

D14. Florence Mary Fisher – aged 9 in 1901.

C7. Frederick James Fisher born September 1850, Lambeth alive in 1901 – occupation Printer Compositor. Married 25 December 1874 Grace Walker, daughter of James Walker, Glass Merchant [Marriage certificate names father “Herbert David Fisher, Chymist”(sic)] His children were:

D15. James Herbert Fisher at home aged 25 in 1901, Clerk, born Lambeth.

D16. Ethel Mary Fisher at home aged 23 in 1901, Assistant Mistress, born Notting Hill

D17. Mary S (ophia?) Fisher at home aged 19 in 1901, G (reater) L (ondon) School Pupil Teacher, born Walworth

D17. Joseph Frederick Fisher at home aged 16 in 1901, Boy Copyist, born Newington

Work on the following family is incomplete. The most important proof – that the John Fisher (B2) is actually David Herbert Fisher’s brother is lacking – a deficiency that would be overcome by locating his elusive marriage certificate.

B2. John Fisher, occupation stableman (1861 aged 47) labourer (1871 aged 58) ostler inn (1881 aged 70). Married Jane Wood. His children were:

C8. John Fisher born 1854/5.Occupation – Carman. Married Mary Ann _. His children were:

D18. John Fisher buried December 1880 aged 4

D19. Mary A Fisher aged 6 (1881)

D20. Annie Fisher aged 2 (1881)

D21. Alice Fisher aged 8 months (1881)

D22. Jane Fisher aged 18 (1901)

D23. Agnes Fisher aged 16 (1901)

D24. Rose Fisher aged 10 (1901)

D25. George Fisher aged 7 (1901)

C9. Charles Fisher born 7 February 1860. Occupation – Carman. Married Sarah _. His children:

D26. Sarah Fisher aged 1 (1881)

D27. Charles Fisher aged 19 (1901), Labourer.

D28. John Fisher aged 16 (1901)

D29. Robert Fisher aged 12 (1901)

D30. Eliza Fisher aged 11 (1901)

D31. James Fisher aged 6 (1901)

DNA & BRICKWALLS

With crucial documents missing we must resort to correlating other information in the hope that some clue may emerge and lead us to John Fisher’s (A1) origins. On the face of it there would appear to be several factors favouring such a solution:

David – an uncommon Christian name in England. But alternating at each generation with the extraordinarily common, John.

Herbert – another uncommon Christian name possibly indicating a matrilineal ancestor.

Chetwynd – An unusual place-name occurring on the Staffordshire/ Shropshire borders used as a second forename possibly indicating a matrilineal surname

So what of our earliest ancestor, John Fisher, gentleman? We know very little about him other than what the baptismal records of his children reveal. The reference to being a ‘gentleman’ probably has no significance regarding his status as at the multiple baptism of three of his children at St Mary Lambeth in 1816 he was described as a coachman. An itinerant occupation – suggesting he could have originated from almost anywhere in the country.

How to bring these threads together? To explain the contradiction in the birthplaces given for David in three consecutive censuses and the very specific reference to Buckinghamshire I reasoned that because he was baptised in Lambeth in 1816 he was actually born in Chetwode several years earlier and that the coachman’s family association with the village was merely fleeting.

What was the connection between Chetwode and Chetwynd, Staffordshire to Buckinghamshire? Chetwode is no more than a small hamlet. Why would a coachman stop off here with his family for the birth of his son? I speculated that John the “gentleman” was a coachman to a gentleman, possibly Lord Chetwode who, not surprisingly, had estates in Chetwode but also in Mucklestone, north Staffordshire, close to the village of Chetwynd.

The fruits of my “One Name Study” will provide the data for the global assessment of John Fisher’s potential origins but even if ‘successful’ this may still lack the weight of positive proof that direct documentary evidence provides.

We are now witnessing the dawn of the application of DNA analysis to genealogy. Although the results of DNA testing are, where properly applied, incontrovertible, the technique cannot define the detail of the link: Two males with the same surname and identical DNA are related but without corroborative information we do not know whether they are first cousins or eighth cousins. The are many qualifications to this statement which are discussed on the Fisher Surname Study website.

The principle of its application to solving documentary brickwalls is quite straightforward. Clearly the efficacy of the method depends on the degree of the relationship between participants and availability of collateral information. Self-evidently the DNA match between two participants in the USA with no prior information of their UK origin is not as useful were they match to match with a participant whose family originated from a small village in Suffolk for example.

So in the context of our own family—whose DNA results are known but whose origin prior to settling in Lambeth is unknown—we are waiting for a match with another Fisher family whose origin in the UK is known and predates (say) 1750.

THE FISHER SURNAME STUDY

The Fisher Surname Study was established in 2001 with the objective to reconstitute the genealogies of all Fisher families originating in the British Isles. It represents a unique combination of traditional documentary research, DNA testing and spatial cluster analysis.

Within its first five years over half a million records relating to the Fisher surname have been amassed. We are now approaching the point where the main function of data collection will be overtaken by the need to assimilate the records and reconstruct family groups.

DNA testing and analysis is central to this process but still the number of families tested remains significantly underrepresented. To facilitate the collection of more DNA tests the Fisher Surname Study offers (subject to certain conditions) free testing to Fisher families with lineages predating 1650.

Full information can be found at The Fisher Surname Study website.