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Letter from Richard M. Rodgers of Georgia

This is from a letter I received from Richard M. Rodgers, dated August 2, 1998. I will quote parts of it.


First, I'd like to discuss the Berryhill family.  The enclosed chart 
entitled "Direct Descendants of Alexander Berryhill" represents my 
current understanding of the line of descent from Alexander Berryhill who 
married the Lady Jane Cartwright through the generations to my father 
Charles Malcolm Rodgers.  I have relied on what I found to be the most 
likely of the various genealogies of the early Berryhill generations, but 
I remain uncertain about some of the details.  The error which you 
correctly question (that John Berryhill who married Elizabeth DuRouzeaux 
was the son of Alexander Berryhill and the Lady Jane Cartwright) 
apparently arose when someone translated the phrase "descendant of" to 
mean "son of."  I have encountered this type of error a number of times 
before in other lines of my research.  I would certainly be interested in 
your thoughts and comments on the various accounts of these early 
generations.  I would especially like to know which of them you think are 
the most reliable.

The fuzziest spot in my own Berryhill lineage is the connection between 
my second great grandmother Theresa Berryhill, who married James Munro 
(also spelled Monroe) [NOTE: almost certainly named for President James 
Monroe - DWM] Rodgers, and her putative parents, William Berryhill and 
Elizabeth Nixon.  Since most of the evidence for this connection is 
circumstantial, and since I am very much interested in your thoughts on my 
line of reasoning here, let me recount what I know:

1.  Theresa Berryhill and James Munro Rodgers were married 18 November 
    1855 in Tallapoosa County, Alabama, by Marmaduke Hornsby, J.P.  I have a 
    copy of their marriage license.  It is also noteworthy that there were 
    several marriages between the Rodgerses and the Hornsbys in Tallapoosa 
    County, and some of their near kin were sources for some of the 
    information I have on Theresa Berryhill.

2.  All white sources in the Rodgers family identify Theresa Berryhill as 
    a Creek Indian.  Some of these sources go to some lengths to describe 
    Indian customs which they felt distinguished Theresa's family from the 
    rest of the Rodgerses.  These same sources also admit (usually with 
    genuine regret) attitudes of racial prejudice among some of the 
    Rodgerses against Theresa's mixed-blood children (one of whom was my 
    great grandfather, William Washington Rodgers).  On the other hand, one 
    white family among the Rodgers kin in Tallapoosa County gave one of 
    their children an Indian name, Osceola.

3.  Based on her responses recorded in census records, Theresa Berryhill 
    was probably born about 1830, and therefore, she was probably about two 
    years old at the time of the Creek Census of 1832.  Judging from 
    discrepancies in her reported ages in the different censuses she may 
    have been in doubt about the year of her birth.

4.  Of the Berryhills enumerated in the Creek Census of 1832, apparently 
    only Thomas and William had daughters then living, and Thomas apparently 
    had only one daughter, whereas William apparently had four (presuming 
    that both their wives were then living as well). Since the daughter of 
    Thomas has been positively identified as Eliza Berryhill, it would 
    appear that William Berryhill is left as the only reasonable candidate 
    among the Creeks enumerated in the census to be Theresa Berryhill's 
    father.

5.  One family tradition (which was confirmed by Joyce Bear, who works in 
    the Cultural Affairs Office of the Muskogee Nation in Okmulgee, 
    Oklahoma) has it that William Berryhill would not leave Alabama 
    voluntarily and so was taken to Oklahoma in chains and under armed 
    guard.  A major problem arises for me here.  Why was Theresa not removed 
    to Oklahoma with her father?  Or if she was removed, how did she come to 
    return to Alabama and marry James Monroe Rodgers in 1855?  Based on 
    rather strong circumstantial evidence, I believe that William 
    Berryhill (and his wife, if she was then living) left their youngest 
    child Theresa with the family of Millie McQueen DuBois, who lived 
    near Tallassee, Alabama.

6.  The family of Barrent DuBois and his wife Millie is enumerated in the 
    Creek Census of 1832; they were then living at Tallassee (I think it is 
    spelled Talisi in the census).  Millie McQueen DuBois was the 
    daughter of Peter McQueen and Betsy Durant, and the granddaughter of 
    the legendary Jim McQueen.  Prior to her marriage to Barrent DuBois, 
    Millie had been the wife of Chief Yargee, as had her sisters Nancy and 
    Talisi.  In Tallassee, she was regarded as the senior woman of the Clan 
    of The Wind (Nancy Berryhill's Clan!) and is identified as such in 
    local histories.  She also is reported to have led the Alibamu Creeks to 
    their lands in east Texas, though she did not remain with them there. 
[what lands in east Texas?  The Creeks were not given land in Texas - DWM]  
    As I have her family traced, she was also first cousin to Assi Yohola 
    (spelled Osceola in most histories, also known as Billy Powell), the 
    famous Seminole war chief who was born in neighboring Macon County, near 
    Tuskegee.

7.  Two of the children of Theresa Berryhill and James Munro Rodgers (and 
    perhaps the others as well, though their stories are not known), i.e., 
    my great grandfather William Washington Rodgers and his brother James C. 
    Rodgers, were definitely known to have been closely associated with 
    Millie McQueen Dubois.  Bill and Jim Rodgers took the noon meal at her 
    home on a daily basis during the time she lived in Tallassee (she moved 
    to Oklahoma to be with her family, shortly before her death about 1891).
    There are a couple of other interesting stories about Millie DuBois in 
    our family's legends, and it is noteworthy perhaps that she was always 
    referred to as Granny DuBois in those stories.  Of course, in the South, 
    people often use the term "granny" as one of respectful endearment that 
    could be attached to an elderly woman who was not kin, so the fact that 
    they called her "granny" may signify nothing more than that.  On the 
    other hand, if I am correct in my hypothesis that Theresa Berryhill 
    lived with and was raised by Millie DuBois, then Millie would bave been 
    the only grandmother that her children Bill and Jim Rodgers actually 
    knew on their mother's side of the family.  I also strongly suspect that 
    Millie was not chosen as a foster parent at random, but that she was 
    related to the Berryhills through her mother's family, but I have no 
    proof of this.  Given the importance of maternal family (and therefore 
    Clan) connection in traditional Creek culture, the ties among these 
    families would have been strong ones indeed.

The preceding facts were compiled from a combination of documentary and 
oral sources.  The documentary sources are all public records, as the 
family records were consumed in a house fire.  The oral accounts came 
down to me through my father and his father, and also through several of 
my father's older first cousins, all of whom personally knew Bill Rodgers 
as their grandfather and Jim Rodgers as their granduncle.  It is perhaps 
worthwhile to note that Bill Rodgers tried to adapt to the ways of the 
dominant culture (he was skilled as a blacksmith), but his brother Jim 
refused to abandon the old ways.  Uncle Jim looked and acted almost like 
a pure-blood Creek (except for his handlebar mustache);  he wore his dark 
hair in braids, usually dressed in traditional Creek clothing, made 
traditional pottery, tools, and weapons by hand, and practiced 
traditional herbal medicine (my father and some of his cousins have 
independently described his apothecary cabinet where he kept his herbal 
medicines; they also described various knives, bowns, arrows, etc., that 
he had made and given them as presents when they were boys).  
Physically, Uncle Jim was a large man, standing about six feet four 
inches tall, and he had a legendary temper.  Stories about him are still 
told around Tallassee, and most of them are based in truth, though it is 
clear that some of the storytellers have villanized Uncle Jim in order to 
frighten little children.  He often appears in the these stories as the 
local equivalent of Injun Joe in "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer," but in 
all candor, he doesn't fare much better in some of the family accounts.  
In one story, it was remarked that he was a favorite of Millie DuBois; 
the evidence appear to support this contention.

...

The enclosed chart entitled "Direct Descendants of John B. Posey" details 
my understanding of the two lines of descent from John B. Posey and his 
wife Lydia Shuttleworth through the generations to my father Charles 
Malcolm Rodgers.  John B. Posey was the son of John Posey and Susanna 
Belaine, and the grandson of the immigrant Francis Posey and Elizabeth 
Foster(?).  The person identified as John Posey III on this chart was 
Captain John Posey, friend and neighbor of George Washington, whose 
misfortunes are somewhat overblown in most histories, and there is 
considerable contoversy concerning just who his children were and where 
they went.  Two children by his second wife, John Price Posey and Millie 
Posey, figure fairly prominently in the lives of both George and Martha 
Washington, and also in the lives of Martha Washington's children, John 
Parke Custis and Martha (Patsy) Custis, but in the case of John Price 
Posey, not at all in a flattering way.  He was found guilty of arson and 
hanged.  Captain John Posey lost his farm next door to Mount Vernon, 
which he called "Rover's Delight," in a forced sale to pay his debts 
(primarily owed, as I recall, to George Washington and George Mason).  At 
that sale, Washington purchased "Rover's Delight" and subsequently 
incorporated the property into the Mount Vernon estate.  I believe that 
some of the descendants of Captain Posey were embarrased by these 
misfortunes and chose to distance themselves from these relatives.

Despite these efforts, it is now virtually certain to me that Captain 
John Posey and his first wife Mary Perry (?) were the parents of the five 
Posey brothers who settled in Abbeville District, South Carolina.   The 
marriage of one of those brothers, Richard Posey, to Elizabeth Wade bears 
witness to this connection, as she was a member of the Wade family 
mentioned several times in George Washington's account books and diaries.
Furthermore, since Richard Posey was a documented veteran of the 
American Revolution, much of his family's history has been documented by 
his descendants who were in the DAR.  Another work that documents part of 
this line is James Wade Emison's history of the Emison family; the 
author's branch of the Emison family was also descended from Richard Posey 
and Elizabeth Wade.  The brother Joseph Posey had no children, and the 
brother Hezekiah Posey moved with his family to Alabama, where he was a 
well respected educator; his family was fairly well documented, and I 
usually do not treat him in the same group as the four other brothers who 
remained in Abbevile.  A fourth brother, Harrison Posey, had two 
children, and I believe one report was that they were both boys.  The 
fith brother in Abbeville, John Posey (IV on chart) died intestate with 
seven minor children; their names are not given in the estate records.

It is well-documented, both in family records and in her pension 
application as the widow of a Revolutionary War veteran, that Martha 
Frances Posey, wife of John Chambers, Jr., was born in Abbeville, South 
Carolina.  It is therefore virtually certain that her father was one of 
the five Posey brothers who lived in Abbeville about the time of her 
birth.  And given what is known about their familes, as outlined in the 
preceding paragraph, it would appear virtually certain that the father of 
Martha Frances was John Posey (though until his two children are 
positively identified, it is not possible to rule out Harrison Posey).

...

Incidentally, there was a sixth brother who did not go to Abbeville; he 
was General Thomas Posey, who had distinguished military and political 
careers, serving at one time as the second Governor of Indiana.  The 
biography, "General Thomas Posey, Son of the American Revolution," is a very 
well-told and well-researched history of his most interesing life, written 
by his descendant John Thornton Posey;...

The questions I have for you along these lines are aobut the parents of 
Benjamin Posey.  I had developed a theory that Nancy Berryhill had 
probably married Thomas Posey, brother of Martha Frances Posey who married 
John Chambers, Jr, for reasons I will explore in due coures.  As I 
reviewed what little I had learned about the family of Bennett Posey, Jr, I 
became more and more convinced that he could indeed have been the husband 
of Nancy Berryhill.  FIrst, let me tell you what little I know about the 
Bennett Posey Jr I had already traced from other sources.  Then, I would 
like to ask you a few questions about the problems I encountered with this 
connections.  After that, I would like to tell you a few things about 
Martha Frances Posey's brother Thomas, and inquire if you have encountered 
anything about him in your researches.

The only Bennett Posey, Jr. of whom I am aware was born 1762, the son of 
Bennett Posey (1736 - 1762) and Elizabeth Hobart (abt 1738 - 1774), 
daughter of Moses Hobart.  The senior Bennett Posey was the son of 
Benjamin Posey (abt 1697 - 1750) and Francis Bateman (abt 1708 - 1781);
this Benjamin was the son of Benjamin Posey (abt 1648- abt 1715) and Mary 
X. (?); and the senior Benjamin was the son of Francis Posey (1615 - 1653/54)
the immigrant, and Elizabeth Foster(?).  Therefore, if the Bennett Posey Jr
who married Nancy Berryhill is the same person as the Bennett Posey Jr 
here traced, then our nearest common Posey ancestor would be Francis 
Posey, the immigrant...

...

1.  What does your family remember about the large difference in age 
    between Bennett Posey, Jr and Nancy Berryhill?  As I have it, he would 
    have been about 22 years older that she.  While such marriages were not 
    that uncommon, the age difference was usually mentioned in the 
    telling of their stories.  To put this into sharper focus, he would 
    have been about 39 in 1801 when their first child Sarah was born, and 
    would hve been about 56 in 1818 when the youngest child WIlliam was 
    born.  Of course, this fact combined with the high mortality rate for 
    women in chidbirh may explain why William ended up an orphan, and may 
    also explain why some descendants knew so little about their Posey 
    ancestors:  they may never have known any of them.  Of course, this is 
    speculation on my part, and what I would really like to to know is 
    what your folks recalled. 
[William Posey was an orphan? - DWM]

2.  The family of Francis Posey and Elizabeth Foster(?) lived in 
    Maryland, and my sources do not trace a migration path nor give 
    birthplaces for the descendants of their son Benjamin, who was the great 
    grandfather of Bennett Posey, Jr.  Does your family have any 
    recollection of where this family went after they left Maryland, or 
    where they came from before they went to the Creek Nation in Georgia and 
    Alabama?  
[I never heard any stories about Bennett Posey at all - DWM]

3.  Does your family recall anything about another family for Bennett 
    Posey, Jr?  A least one source reprted that he married Rhoda Hobart 
    in 1781 (she was probably his cousin), but I do not know wher they had 
    any children. 
[All I know about Bennett Posey Jr I read in the book "Posey Family in
America" published n 1971 by Floyd Franklin Posey and Betty Drake Posey]

...

Concerning the descendants of Thomas Posey and his near kin I had noted
the following facts:

1.  My fifth great grandmother Martha Frances Posey (born abt 1770) of 
    Abbeville County, SC maried John Chambers, Jr., (born about 1758) 
    probably in Elbert County, Georgia.  A number of their descendants 
    settled in Chambers County Alabama shortly after that land was ceded 
    by the Creek Nation.  When the the Chamberses settled there, they still 
    had Creek neighbors.

2.  John Chambers Jr lost the family farm, reportedly by putting it up as 
    security for a friend's appearance in criminal court.  The "friend"
    absconded, and Chambers went to Texas to establish a new farm for his
    family.  The family legend, reported by Sadie Chambers Burdett in her
    book "The Chambers Family" (1949) and repeated around fireplaces in 
    the Chambers family for generations, was that Martha Frances Posey 
    Chambers's brother Thomas Posey helped the family secure property out 
    west, reportedly on the Brazos River in Texas.  The family received 
    letters from John Chambers while he was there, and some of these letters 
    were saved for two or three generatons, at least; some may yet survive, 
    though I have no knowledge of where they might be.  Though the 
    essential facts are known to be true, this legend has posed major 
    problems for Chambers and Posey family researchers primarily because 
    Texas was not a part of the United States at the time that John 
    Chambers disappeared (presumed dead); it was, in fact, inhabited 
    primarily by Indians, and there seemed to be no explanation why John 
    Chambers chose to go all the way to Texas to re-establish himself.  
    And Martha's brother Thomas is not mentioned in the Chambers family 
    records again.

3.  Francis Posey (born about 1772), whose descendants identify him as 
    the son of John Posey of Abbeville County, SC, married Matilda Foshee 
    (born abt 1774), and their descendants later lived in Autauga and Coosa 
    Counties in Alabama, and at Posey's Hollow, Arkansas; some descendants 
    surnamed Lee later lived in Norman, Oklahoma.  Thus far, I have only the 
    work of descendants on which to rely, but if his descendants have 
    correctly identified his father, then I believe Frances was the brother 
    of Martha Frances and Thomas Posey.

4.  Joseph Foshee (born 1852) and Little Alexander Foshee (born 1854), both
    sons of William Riley Foshee (born abt 1820), married respectively 
    Martha J. Berryhill (born 1855) and Mary A. Berryhill (born 1854), both 
    daughters of William Berryhill and Jane Sales.  This Wiliam Berryhill 
    was almost certainly the brother of my great great grandmother Theresa 
    Berryhill Rodgers, so Nancy Berryhill Posey would have been their aunt, 
    as she was the sister of their father, WIliam Berryhill, son of John 
    Berryhill and Elizabeth DuRouzeax. It is also important to note that 
    Josepn and Little Alexander Foshee had a sister named Matilda Foshee 
    (born aout 1856).

...

Richard M. Rodgers, CMA



Dear Richard,

Thank you very much for your letter.  It got here today, the 6th.

You have my permission to use anything you want from my book or from my
web site, or the updates, whatever you want to use.  Sharon has the same
permission for her book.

First, I have no evidence at all on the husband of Nancy Berryhill Posey.
The name Bennett Posey Jr came from the same gedcom or file that said
Alexander Berryhill and Lady Jane Cartwright named two sons John.  So I
really have no faith in the accuracy of that information.  It DID NOT come
from Thelma Nolen Cornfeld's research papers.  If it had, then I would
tend to believe it, as she really put her heart and soul into the
Berryhill family research...I wrote a letter to Thelma last week at her 
last known address in ... California, I am hoping to hear something.

Heidi Smith lives in ... Nevada.  Her husband is descended from Samuel
Hopwood-Sarah Posey.  She owns the Bible that is in chapter 17 of my book.
She recently sent me a photocopy and boy is it hard to read!  So the bible
in Chapter 17 of my book has been extinsively revised.  

I believe I sent her residence address to Sharon.  I don't have it handy.

Oh, I am not concerned that Bennett Posey Jr would be 39 when he married
Nancy Berryhill, if he really did.  One of my other ancestors, Isaac
Gillespie, was 41 when he married the first time, and had a whole bunch of
kids.  He also had an illegitimate daughter.

But your theory that Nancy married Thomas Posey sounds good to me.  I just
don't know.  I never heard ANY family stories.  My grandfather didn't like
to talk about family, and sure didn't like to talk about having Creek
Indian blood.

You wanted to know where my family was in my book.  Here goes.

My grandfather was Davis D. Barber  -- Chapter 16

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dmorgan/chapter16.html


My great grandfather was James Monroe Barber -- Chapter 15

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dmorgan/chapter15.html

My great great grandparents were Silas H. Barber and his first wife Sarah
Ann Posey.  chapter 14

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dmorgan/chapter14.html

Someone else you might want to contact is Wayne Stockton of Bartlesville,
Oklahoma. I recently heard that he is still very much alive and still
living in Bartlesville.  He is not on the Internet as far as I know, but
you could probably call information for his phone number.  Wayne was a
great help to me when I first started genealogy. He did a lot of research
in the Dawes Commission records.  Wayne is a descendant of Benjamin Posey
Eliza Berryhill through their daughter Tinsley Elizabeth Posey who married
(1) John Stinson [Wayne's line] (2)Silas H Barber in 1868.

Before I forget, if Thomas Berryhill had a daughter listed on the 1832
census of the Creeks, that was not Eliza.  She married Benjamin Posey in
1824, and was living with him and a bunch of kids on the 1832 census.  

I don't believe William Berryhill left Alabama in chains.  That would have
happened in 1836 or 1837, with the forcible removal of the Creeks that
could be found.  If Joyce Bear showed you a document of all the Creeks
that were put in chains and moved to Oklahoma, and William's name was on
it, I would believe it.

Otherwise, I would believe the testimony of Nathan Berryhill, for the most
part, and the move to Rusk County, Texas from Randolph County, Alabama.
Nathan was born in 1830 in Georgia, and was living in Randolph County
Alabama in about 1852 when he moved to Rusk County, Texas.  I think
William Berryhill and Benjamin Posey were probably forced out of Chambers
County about the same time.  Benjamin Posey was in Tallapoosa County,
Alabama in 1846, when his younger son, William Andrew Jackson Posey, was
born.  Benjamin Posey and family were in Nacogdoches County, Texas by
December 1846, probably earlier, when his oldest daughter Sarah married
Silas H. Barber.

I think Nathan and his brothers and sisters, whoever they were, and the
Poseys, had enough white blood, that once they left Chambers County, where
they were known, they could blend into the other places in Alabama where
there wasn't quite as much tension.  That is MY theory.  Otherwise, how
did Benjamin Posey and family manage to stay in Tallapoosa County until
1846?

There was a William Berryhill in the Creek Nation West in 1829, but Thelma
Nolen Cornfeld doesn't say who this was in her research.

A lot of the Creeks that moved to Oklahoma in 1827-1828, the first and
second party, or friendly Creeks, left for greener pastures, either to
Missouri or Texas.  This was most likely the mixed bloods that could blend
in with the white folks better.  They also got flooded out in about
1833, and had to move their homes.  This might have made the decison for
some of them, to just move on.

Do you have the book "Berryhill Red" that is available from Southern
Historical Press?  I assume Sharon has mentioned it to you.  I haven't
seen it.  I understand there is a will in there that might be the will of
Joseph and Hanna Berryhill.

The Berryhill line you sent me is what I basically received from Ken
Berryhill over the Internet, without the evidence to back it up,
naturally. but it certainly makes more sense than having two sons named
John.

As for John Chambers Jr, born 1758.  Where was the family farm that he
lost?  Elbert County Georgia?  Chambers County Alabama?

I don't know how a Thomas Posey could have helped him secure land in Texas
unless Thomas was part of Stephen F. Austin's Colony.  John Chambers could
have gone to Texas to get a fresh start, depending on what year he went.
Texas became a Republic in 1836, when John was 76.  This seems a little
far-fetched.  At any rate, why didn't Thomas help Benjamin get land too?

I've probably missed something you wanted answered in your letter.  I will
look it over again.

David

This page was last updated Thursday, 14-Aug-2008 16:46:34 MDT