Search billions of records on Ancestry.com
   
This website designed by Clovis LaFleur
     

Group  8 Genetic Analysis
Stark Descendants of German Heritage
     
Persons to Contact

Administrator: Sheila Schmutz

<sheila.schmutz@usask.ca>

Co-administrator: Clovis LaFleur 

<clafleur1@austin.rr.com>

Webmaster: Clovis LaFleur <clafleur1@austin.rr.com> Click HERE to see Disclaimer Last Update: December 04, 2013

 

Page 1

 

Group 8 Genetic Analysis

Stark Descendants of German Heritage

 

Introduction

Group 8 is comprised of members with direct male lineage to a male Stark ancestor who was an immigrant from Germany to another Country or presently lives in Germany. The project objectives for this group are to: 1) find genetic matches; 2) possible place immigrated from in Germany; and 3) evaluate the various Haplogroups that may occur. Subgroups for Group 8 have been created based on the predicted or confirmed Haplogroup of each member. This organization of members of Group 8 will allow placement of members in subgroups that will more likely have genetic matches. When persons with different Major Haplogroups are compared to each other, there will be zero probability they shared a common ancestor after surnames were established in Europe in the 14th & 15th centuries. Further, the most recent common ancestor they could have shared lived more than 10,000 years before the present.

 

Genetic Results Table

The following Genetic Results Table presents the allele values available over 37 DYS Markers for each of the members. Cells with this background color report DYS Marker allele values of members with Haplotype E (Subgroup 8A). Cells with this background color report DYS Marker allele values of members with Haplogroup G (Subgroup 8B). Cells with this background color report DYS Marker allele values of Members with Haplogroup R (Subgroup 8C). The Ancestor Column reports the place of residence (Present day Germany) of the earliest known ancestor. Haplogroups for members highlighted in RED are predicted and have not been confirmed by testing.

 

Genetic Results Table

Haplo-

group

Ancestor place of Origin

Kit#

Marker Numbers
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37
E1b1b1

????

Germany

173094

13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 19 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 15 12 16 18 31 33 11 10
G Würzburg, Bavaria, Germany

173510

14 22 15 10 12 14 11 12 12 12 11 29 20 9 9 11 11 22 16 20 27 12 14 14 14 10 10 19 20 15 13 17 17 36 41 10 10
R1a1

Baden

Wüerttemberg

Germany

140291

13 26 16 10 11 14 12 12 11 13 11 29 16 9 10 11 11 23 14 20 30 12 12 15 15 11 11 19 23 17 16 18 19 35 40 12 11
R1b1b2

????? Germany

180764

13 24 14 11 11 14 12 13 12 12 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 16 16 17 10 11 20 23 16 15 17 19 35 37 12 12
R1b1b2

East Germany

175273

13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 24 14 18 27 14 15 16 16 10 10 19 23 15 15 19 18 35 36 12 12

    

General Analysis of Genetic Results of Members of Group 8

 At this time, the population of Males in Group 8 is small. However, three major haplogroups have been identified indicating the Stark surname of our members originated from three unrelated ancestors. By unrelated, the first possible common ancestor of the present members of Group 8 lived about 40,000 years or more before the present. This implies a direct male ancestor of each member of Group 8 who lived, for example, 1,000 years before the present — could be the Y-DNA progenitor of many males living today who have different surnames. [See Understanding Haplogroups for more detail.]

 

Interpretation of The Genetic Results of members of Group 8

Members in Group 8 will be organized as above into the Major Haplogroups. Haplotype comparisons will be performed looking for matches to others with the surname Stark or a derivative; and to persons in the FTDNA and Y-Search genetic databases having different surnames but reasonable genetic matches. Persons from these databases most desired for comparison will be those having a genealogical lineage that can be compared to that of Members of Group 8. The geographical location of the earliest known ancestors in Europe could provide a common place of origin for a Members who match others in the database.

 

 

 

 

Page 2

 

Analysis of Haplogroup E Members

#173094 reports paternal Country of origin was Germany. He is a perfect Genetic Match to #A159571 over Markers 1 through 12 and has a Genetic distance of 3 over Markers 13 through 37. The DNA results for A159571 are presented under #173094 on the Results Web Page. Unfortunately, we do not have lineage information for A159571. An additional problem In the H37 Haplotype comparison is Ancestry.com did not test A159571 at Markers 14, 15, 19, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 & 36. Therefore,  the Time To Most Recent Common Ancestor cannot be determined. #173094 has no other near matches to members of the Stark project.

The Haplogroup of #173094 has been predicted to be E1b1b1 / E-M35 by FTDNA. Two men in the FTDNA database with surnames other than Stark are a 23/25 match to #173094 and a perfect match to each other. Both were sub-clade tested and found to be positive for mutation V13. This places them in Haplogroup E1b1b1a2. One of the men claims ancestry back to Austria. The other claims ancestry back to Groningen, Netherlands. When genetically compared to #173094, the probability they share a common ancestor within the last 24 generations is 91.49%. Assuming they actually do share a common ancestor within this generational time frame, this common ancestor most likely lived before surnames were established in Europe — his sons or descendants of his sons taking different surnames. Without confirmation #173094 is mutation V13 positive, we cannot at this time presume his haplogroup is E1b1b1a2 / E-V13.

 

Analysis of Haplogroup G Members

#173510 reports European origin of earliest known ancestor, Ferdinand Stark, was Würzburg, Bavaria, Germany. When his H37 Haplotype of is compared to the other Stark Project members, his smallest genetic distance is 23. Therefore, #173510 and members of the Project shared a common ancestor who lived thousands of years earlier; a period before the present considerably earlier than when surnames were established in Europe. 

  FTDNA predicts #173510 belongs to Haplogroup G. In Europe, Haplogroup G is found in 4.88% of the male population on average throughout the continent. In the British Isles, Scandinavia, northern France, northern Germany, the Netherlands and the Baltic countries it is less common, e.g. Britain and Norway at 2%. Around 4% of Welsh men are in Haplogroup G. [Click HERE for more information on Haplogroup G] Würzburg, Bavaria, Germany would be in the southern part of Germany.

 

Analysis of Haplogroup R Members

#140291 is a descendant of a German immigrant from the region once known as Swabia, now Baden-Wüerttemberg. The origin of Haplogroup R1a remains disputed. It presumably originated somewhere in the Eurasian landmass, where it is most commonly found today. There are two focuses of high frequency of R1a, one in South Asia, near North India, and the other in Eastern Europe, in the area of Ukraine. [Click HERE for more information on Haplogroup R1a]. When compared to other members of the project over the H37 haplotype, #140291 has a genetic distance of 24 or greater. The odds greatly favor #140291 could not have shared a common male ancestor with any other member of the project within thousands of years. #140291 had allele values at DYS-464e and DYS-464f which are not normally found in the 13 thru 25 sequence. See Marker 464e note on the Y-DNA Results web page.

#180764 & #175273 have Markers 1 through 37 available for analysis and FTDNA predicts their haplogroup will be R1b1b2. When the H37 haplotype of #180764 is compared to #136832 in Subgroup 2D, there is a genetic distance of 14. When #175273 is compared to #136832 in Subgroup 2D, the genetic distance is 13. When genetic distance is compared to all other members of the project, #175273 is greater than 13 and #180764 is greater than 14. 

This suggests neither can share a common ancestor with any member of the project that lived within the previous 20 generations. Family tradition suggests the earliest ancestor #180764, John Dietrich Stark, may have been the son of German Parents. There is a genetic distance of 29 when #180764 is compared to #140291 while the genetic distance is 28 when #140291 is compared to #175273. The first common ancestor they could share would be the Progenitor of the R1 Haplogroup of which the progenitors of R1a and R1b are descendants. R1 lived about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago. Until proven otherwise, #180764 & #175273 are placed in Subgroup 8C with #140291 because they are all members of Haplogroup R.

Comparing #180764 to #175273 resulted in a genetic distance of 17. This suggests they may belong to the same or different subclades of their predicted haplogroup R1b1b2. Using the Infinite Allele Time Most Recent Common Ancestor model (TMRCA), their common ancestor most likely lived between 78 and 94 generations earlier, or within the calendar years from 1248BC to 704 BC. [Based on a simple mismatch at 15 of 37 markers. Calendar Years calculated using average of 34 Years for time between male birth events for each generation beginning with and subtracting from the calendar year 1948.]   

 

Understanding Haplogroups

The male Y-chromosome is handed down from father to son relatively unchanged through the generations. All males living today have a direct male lineage "back in time" to a male who, according to geneticists, lived about 60,000 to 90,000 years ago. However, over the generations, mutations have been observed by Geneticists known as Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNP or Snip) mutations. These mutations that occurred at a specific location on the Y-Chromosome were passed from fathers to their sons. For each of these mutations, there was a progenitor (first to have the mutation); this mutation passed along to his male descendants unchanged. Today, these identifiable mutations are present in all of today's male populations, often found  concentrated in specific geographic locations. 

For those in Group 8, we have the Major Haplogroups R, E, and G. FTDNA has either confirmed members Haplogroup by testing for the defining mutations or has predicted a members Haplogroup  based on results from others in their database who have been tested and Haplogroup confirmed. For members FTDNA predicts your Haplogroup will be approximately equivalent; but cannot confirm without additional tests.

 

What is a Major Haplogroup Sub-clade?

#140291 was predicted by FTDNA to most likely belong to Haplogroup R1a1. The number followed by small letter sequence following the capital letter "R" is a nomenclature defining a "Sub-clade" of the Major Haplogroup R. This member was predicted to most likely test positive for the mutation defining Haplogroup R and will most likely have other defining mutations that will place him in Sub-clade R1a1. In this example, the Group 8 Member will most likely test positive for three additional mutations that will place him in the R haplogroup sub-clade defined as R1a1.

 

 

[Top of Page]

 

Disclaimer

The project administrator and webmaster is yours truly, Clovis LaFleur.  I am a volunteer and receive no financial remuneration of any kind from Family Tree DNA, nor am I one of their "web affiliates" (i.e., I don't profit from "click throughs").  I'm retired and genealogy is my hobby and is not my business. As a Project Administrator and webmaster I am not responsible for the genealogy material provided by members nor am I responsible for the Test Results publicly reported by FTDNA. The analysis of results prepared and presented by me on this web site are based on my interpretation of the Y-DNA results published and the genealogy provided by the project members. Discussion of my analysis with members and others will always be welcome.