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Subject: ORIGINS OF THE CUMMIN(G)S/COMYNS NAME - 1 Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:51:07 EDT From: Chascum@aol.com ORIGINS OF THE CUMMIN(G)S/COMYNS NAME Subj: Cummings Name Date: 96-06-13 From: comings@mcs.net (MaryAnn Comings) To: Chascum Charlie, In case your Cummings group is interested here is some information on the origin of the name: ORIGINS OF THE NAME OF COMINGS >From the book "Cummings Genealogy, Isaac Cummings 1601-1677 of Ipswich 1638 and Some of his Descendants", compiled and published by Albert Oren Cummins, Montpelier, Vermont, 1904 TRADITIONS Isaac Cummings, according to tradition, was of Scottish ancestry, claiming descent from the "Red Cumin", of Badenoch, in the southeastern district of Inverness-shire, a wild mountainous country, presenting wide stretches of bleak moorland. Here the clan flourished from 1080 to 1330, and then began to decline. Some deduce their origin from Normandy and others from Northumberland. According to the Chronicle of Melrose, the first of the name who figured prominently, was slain with Malcom III at Alnwick in 1093, leaving two sons, John and William. From John, all the Cumins in Scotland are said to be descended. Sir John, the Red Cumin or Comyn, was the first Lord of Bedenoch, and in 1240 was an ambassador from Alexander II to Louis IX, of France. His son John, called the Black Lord of Badenoch, was inferior to no subject in Scotland for wealth and power, and was one of those who vowed to support Queen Margaret, daughter of Alexander III in her title to the crown. At her death he became a competitor for the crown of Scotland, "as the son and heir of John, who was son and heir of Donald, King of Scotland". The son of ths Lord, called, in turn, the Red Cumin, as the last Lord of Badenoch of the surname of Cumin. In 1335 a number of the Cumin clan was slain in the feudal battle of Culbleau, in Glenwick, where a stone now marks the spot. The badge of the clan, in Gaelic, was "Lus Mhic Cuiminn", in English, the Cummin plant. __ Another TRADITION runs: Comines - Comynges - Comyns - Comings - Cumyn - Cumings - Cummings; "a family which rose to great power and eminence in Scotland and England. The name was taken from the town of Comines near Lille, on the frontier between France and Belguim. In 1445 one branch of the family gave birth, in the old chateau, to the historian, Phillipe di Comines. Another branch followed William of Normandy to the conquest of England. In the year 1069, Robert of Comines, or Comyn, with 700 horse from William the Conqueror, seized Durham and held it 48 hours, but the people rose up against him and he perished in the flames at the burning of the Bishop's Palace. His nephew, William, became Chancellor of Scotland in 1133. The Chancellor's nephew, Richard, inherited the English possessions of the family and married the Countess of Athol, grand-daughter of Donald Bane, King of Scots, and his son, William, in 1210, became Earl of Buchan by marrying the Celtic heiress of North Eardom. By this marriage he became the father of Elexander, Earl of Buchan, who married the daughter of Roger-de quenci, Earl of Winchester. By other marriages the family obtained the Earldom of Angus and Athol, so that by the middle of the 13th century there were in Scotland on Lord, four Earls, and thirty-two belted Knights by the name of Comyns. Within 70 years this great house was entirely overthrown, there were none left of them, save those who took refuge in the "Monks of Deer", a monastery founded in 1219 by William Cumyns, Earl of Buchan. John Cumyns, son of the Earl of Badenoch, who was in 1291 an unsuccessful competitor for the crown, was a descendant of Donald Bane, king of the old Celtic dynasty. John Cumyns, Earl of Buchan, was defeated by Bruce in a pitched battle in 1306. Such of the Cumyns as escaped the sword found refuge with their wives and children in England, where, although they were so poor as to be dependent upon the bounty of the English Court, they married into the best families, so that their blood circulated through the nobles in other kingdoms and descendants of Henry IV. The Earl of Shrewsbuty was the representative of the Lord of Badenoch, who was at the head of the race." ___ Another TRADITION from an educated American who spent much time in Rome, "The Cummings family is a very old family; as faar as can be gathered, the family lived in Lombardy, northern Italy during, and prior to the fourth century, it then came over the Alps, and settled in Provence, and then went to the Gironde country in the southern part of France, and thence to the north of France, on the borders of Belgium, where was founded the town of Commines, where lived Phillip of Commines, whom Hallan called the father of Ancient History, thence they went to Scotland and England and Ireland. An educated native of Rome insists that the original family of Commines was a family once well known in Lombardy, that he had traced them to France, and it is a fact established by ancient history that they were a strong family during the great'Hearth' war, which lasted for many years, and that Ealr do Cumminges was perhaps the principal factor in bringing on and continuing the war. History tells us they went to England about the time of the invasion by William the Conqueror," etc. ___ Although these traditions are given as such, it will be noticed that they carry many indications of having been compiled by fertile brains from the many historical books extant. I too well recollect of my grandfather, who was born in 1768, caressing me, in my childhood and calling me "a little Scotchman," and a large majority of the traditions, and circumstantial evidence, strongly indicate that we are of Scotch descent. From what I have learned in the six years of my researches of the Cummings records, I have formed the oopinion that Isaac came to America from England, but that he was of Scotch origin, though all my efforts to make a connection with his ancestors have been futile. In the second tradition given is a mention of the historian "Phillipe de Comins", and there was published in Paris in 1552 a French work on a man of that name, at the close, or end, of which are many genealogical Comines trees, and I have made considerable effort to obtain a coy of the book, but it being out of print, have not been able to secure one. Also, some 150 or more years ago there was published in England a Commins genealogy, but that is also out of print. -----------------------------------XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX---------------------------- ----- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Subj: Re: CUMMIN(G)S,COMYN'S/FAMILY'S Date: 96-03-08 From: JMorriss To: Chascum I am posting the following excerpt that I think may be of interest to others. CLAN COMYN (CUMMING) This information comes from a book by Charles MacKinnon, "Scottish Highlanders", published by Barnes & Noble Books in 1992 and copyright by Charles MacKinnon of Dunakin 9n 1984. Part One deals with the history and people of the Highlands; Part Two is a history of the individual Clans. Following is the section on Clan Comyn (Cumming) This is another clan of undoubted Norman descent, and the first Comyn to appear on the pages of Scotland's history was William, Chancellor to King Henry I of England, Bishop of Durham and, in 1133, Chancellor of Scotland under King David I. This powerful figure was succeeded by his nephew and heir, Richard, who is the real founder of the Scottish Comyns--whose surname derives from Comines near Lille in France. In addition to being Lord of Northallerton in England, Richard received a grant of lands in Roxburghshire in Scotland, and he married Hexilda, the granddaughter of the Scottish King Donald III (Donald Ban, who had been deposed and blinded in 1097). Richard's son William, who died in 1182, was the first to take the name of Comyn into the Highlands, when he married Marjory, Countess of Buchan. Thereafter the Comyns were known as the Lords of Badenoch and of Lochaber, and their power grew very quickly. During the reign of King Alexander III, who ruled from 1249 to 1286, the Comyns acquired the earldoms of Buchan, Monteith and Atholl and the Lordship of Strathbogie. They acted as princes and made treaties, one still in existence being with Llewellyn of Wales. During this same period of their greatness, they were, from 1270 to 1308, Hereditary Constables of Scotland. The House of Cumming of Altyre, on whom the chiefship of the clan ultimately devolved, are descended from Robert, the younger son of John, Lord of Badenoch. Robert's elder brother, John, was the famous "Black Comyn". He was a contender for the Scottish throne in 1290 to 1291--and when the crown went to King John Balliol, he promptly married Balliol's sister. In this way the position of his son, another John and this time known as the "Red Comyn", was strengthened, for he now had a double claim to the throne, and he seems to have disputed Bruce's claim, for it was he whom Robert Bruce stabbed to death in the church at Dumfries in 1306. The Red Comyn's son, the last of his line, was killed at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314, fighting against Bruce. Sir Iain Moncreiffe, Scotland's leading Highland historian, has pointed out amusingly that the daughters of this last of the Comyns took the family's claim to the Scottish throne to France, when they fled there from the wrath of Robert Bruce. This eventually passed, by a series of marriages, to King Louis XIV of France! When later the exiled Stuarts, who were of course heirs to Robert Bruce, sought refuge at Louis XIV's court, they were placing themselves under the protection of the French heir to King John Balliol! Bruce harried the Comyns ruthlessly after his own power was secure, and devastated the lands of Buchanan. Devastation in the fourteenth century was a grim and bloody affair, and the Comyns paid the price for their lord's claim to the Scottish throne. The Lordship of Badenoch passed to the MacPhersons, and the princely family disappears from Scottish history. Not, however, the clan or the name, for to the north of Badenoch the Comyns of Altyre (now the Cummings of Altyre) were seemingly spared by Bruce. The family received grants of land from Bruce's successors, kings David II and Robert II. They flourished as a Highland clan in Morayshire up to and beyond the end of the Jacobite era, and the present chief of the clan still lives at Altyre. Many alternate spellings of the name show up in the various records. Some of These variables are Cummins, Cumlnes, Cummings, Comine, Comyn, Cummin, Cummine, Cuming, Cumyn, Cummyn, Commyn. Keep in mind that most people could not read or write and The scribes of those days spelled the name as It sounded to them. In those days a person could be born with one spelling, marry with another and be buried under yet a different spelling of the name.depending on who wrote it ----------------------XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX------------------ XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX From: MLMurrah To: Chascum One of the names in my ancestry is Landrum, and it is my understanding that the family changed the name from Comyn to Landrum after the family estate after being on the losing end of a royal succession battle in Scotland about 1300. As I recall the Comyn name comes from a plant that the family used on its crest. It may have been the plant from which the herb cumin is derived. Have you heard that story? Lee Murrah Cedar Rapids, IA ----------------------------XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX---------------------- ---- Subj: Bob Cumming Letter Date: 96-01-31 From: Ancummins To: Chascum BRUCE H. CUMMING 1004 Catherine Street Walla Walla, WA 99362-4103 (509) 529-3888 December 5. 1995 Dear Bob, Joey, et al On going thru your latest missive and all of the stuff that came with it I find myself looking at the treatise on the Scots Family Cumming --or should I be correct and phrase it CLAN CUMMING1 If he doesn't already have it, your correspondent. or whatever, Charles Cummins, might be interested in a video that I have had for a few years now, entitled, as you might imagine CLAN CUMMING. It just so happens that a few days ago I received a new ScotVision catalog which has an ad for this and other videos for various Scottish Family names. I'm enclosing a copy of this ad so, if you wish. you can advise good old Charlie how he can obtain a video that should interest him. It might interest your buddy Chascum to know that his list of different spellings of his - and my - surname is not complete, nor did he include any of the Septs which are a part of the clan. To show him how brilliant you are, throw the following names at him: CLAN CUMMING Cumming Commons Buchan Cummings Common Farguhar(son) Cummin Comyn Niven Cummins Chien McNiven Cumin Cheyne Russell Cumyn I'm delighted to note (see enclosed clipping) that A O L is so squeaky clean but has condescended to lifting the taboo on the really dirty word. "breastsl" I'm surprised friend Charlie's handle of Chascum is allowed! I would hate to think that you would be using some service or Facility that trafficked in such filth as marginally dirty words as "breast" evidently was! --------------------- Subj: History Surname Date: 96-04-13 23:30:51 EDT From: kelliase@ties.k12.mn.us (Kay Elliasen) To: Chascum@aol.com Information on the history of the Cummings surname? The origin of the Cummings family is unknown: some claim the family came from Normandy, others from Northumberland. The clan Cumin flourished in Badeenoch in the southeastern district of Inverness-shire, Scotland, between 1080 and 1330. A book titled American Surnames by Elsdon C. Smith, 1969, suggests Cummings or Cummins refers to a man who went to Scotland from Coimes in Flanders or from Bosc-Bernard Commin in France. He further states, "some with the name Cummings or Cumins affirm that an early member of the family living in Scotland who spoke only Norman French was keeper of the King's bed chamber. He learned only two English words, "Come" and "in", which he spoke when anyone applied for admission. He thus became known as William Come-in or Comyn." The author noted this was "a good interesting tradition, but absolutely incapable of any kind of proof." The early settlers of this country were not as fussy about spelling as we are today, possibly because most people had little formal education. Often language barriers inhibited consistent spelling. Names were usually spelled phonetically by town clerks, pastors, or other officials and not by the people themselves. Because all records were handwritten, deciphering errors occurred. The research on early settlers comes from early handwritten official records. The following names are variant spellings of the Cummings Name as found in early records: (Most references after 1850 are spelled Cummings, before that time Comings was the most often used spelling.) Comings Commeng Cuming Commings Comin Cumming Coming Commin Cumengs Comming Commens Cummengs Comengs Comens Cumeng Commengs Cumings Cummeng Comeng Cummings Cummins Kay A. Elliasen -------------------------- Subj: Re: CUMMIN(G)S,COMYN'S/FAMILIES Date: 96-06-05 From: kit@kea.grace.cri.nz (Kit Withers) To: Chascum@aol.com Excerpts from "DICTIONARY OF SURNAMES" by PH Reaney, London (1958) Routledge. CUMING,CUMINGS,CUMINE,CUMMIN,CUMMINS,CUMMINE,CUMMING,CUMMINGS, ... Godwinus filius Cumine 1173; Eustachius filius Cumine 1219; Petrus filius Kymine 1301; William Comyn 1133; Hugh Coumini 1157; Walter Cumin 1158; John Comin 1175-9; William Cumyn 1230 ... Robert (d1069), one of the companions of the Conqueror & ancestor of the Scottish Comyns, is elsewhere named Rod bearde eorle & Robertus cognomento Cumin .. Comines is near the Belgian border. .. probably .. the family came from Bosc-Bernard-Commin .. just south of the Seine on the edge of the Foret de Roubray near Rouen where Hugh Coumini (1157) & Bernard Comin (1175) had land in the heart of the district from which came numerous Domesday barons. The surname is clearly from a personal-name, which surviviing in Norfolk, Lincs. & Yorks. in the 12-13th C's, may be of Breton origin.. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Date: 95-09-08 20:12:52 ED---- --- From: Jennify To: Chascum I was a my public library and I came across this book. I found it interesting and I hope you will too. Feel free to forward this info. Thanks for your help and putting me on the list. Jennify Following from a book entitled 'Family Names and Their Story' By S. Baring-Gould, MA London, Seeley and Co. Limited, 1910. Republished by Omnigraphics, 1990. Surname Cummins Page 217: "Comines, from Comines in Flanders, Robert de Comines was created Earl of Northumberland by the Conqueror, but on an account of his insolence and violence, was killed by the people of Durham in 1069. He must, however, have left kinsmen in the nortth, for the name was continued as historical inScotland; but forms of it are found in all parts of England, as Comings, Cummins, Cooming, Comyns." Page 375: "A kinsmen went north beyond the Tweed, and his desendantshave constituted a powerful clan, and wear the cummin as their badge and have their own tartan. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Subj: Re: cummi(g)s/comyn's-family Date: 95-10-21 19:47:11 EDT From: Sfulton100 To: Chascum Thanks for continuing to send along all the info. I've recently come across a lovely book "Highlanders" by Fitzroy MacLean. It has early history of the Cummin(Comyn) family and an illustration of the tartan with the following note: "The Cummings, Comyns or Cummins were of Norman origin. The first to settle in Scotland was William Comyn who became Chancellor of Scotland in the time of King David and received a grant of land in Roxburgh. After 1230 the Comyns became Lords of Badenoch and also held much of Lochaber and the Great Glen. In 1242 as a result of marriages to Celtic dynastic heiresses, Alexander Comyn was Earl of Buchan, Walter was,Earl of Menteith and John was Earl of Argus. By this time nearly one quarter of the Scottish Earls were Comyns and they had come to have as much Celtic as Norman blood. Their Chief, the Black Comyn was one of competitors for the Crown of Scotland. His son, the Red Comyn, was stabbed to death by Robert Bruce who during and after the long war that followed very largely managed to destroy the Comyns. Since the Middle Ages their Chiefs have held the barony of Altyre near Forres, where they now reside. In 1804 Sir Alexander Cumming of Altyre was created a baronet. On succeeding to the estates of Gordon of Gordonstoun he took the name of Gordon-Cumming. ------------- Subj: Re: CUMMIN(G)S,COMYN'S/FAMILY'S Date: 96-03-08 12:33:58 EST From: Jmorriss To: Chascum I am posting the following excerpt that I think may be of interest to others. It is long and I suggest copying and reading it off-line. CLAN COMYN (CUMMING) This information comes from a book by Charles MacKinnon, ôScottish Highlandersö, published by Barnes & Noble Books in 1992 and copyright by Charles MacKinnon of Dunakin 9n 1984. Part One deals with the history and people of the Highlands; Part Two is a history of the individual Clans. Following is the section on Clan Comyn (Cumming) This is another clan of undoubted Norman descent, and the first Comyn to appear on the pages of ScotlandÆs history was William, Chancellor to King Henry I of England, Bishop of Durham and, in 1133, Chancellor of Scotland under King David I. This powerful figure was succeeded by his nephew and heir, Richard, who is the real founder of the Scottish Comyns--whose surname derives from Comines near Lille in France. In addition to being Lord of Northallerton in England, Richard received a grant of lands in Roxburghshire in Scotland, and he married Hexilda, the granddaughter of the Scottish King Donald III (Donald Ban, who had been deposed and blinded in 1097). RichardÆs son William, who died in 1182, was the first to take the name of Comyn into the Highlands, when he married Marjory, Countess of Buchan. Thereafter the Comyns were known as the Lords of Badenoch and of Lochaber, and their power grew very quickly. During the reign of King Alexander III, who ruled from 1249 to 1286, the Comyns acquired the earldoms of Buchan, Monteith and Atholl and the Lordship of Strathbogie. They acted as princes and made treaties, one still in existence being with Llewellyn of Wales. During this same period of their greatness, they were, from 1270 to 1308, Hereditary Constables of Scotland. The House of Cumming of Altyre, on whom the chiefship of the clan ultimately devolved, are descended from Robert, the younger son of John, Lord of Badenoch. RobertÆs elder brother, John, was the famous ôBlack Comynö. He was a contender for the Scottish throne in 1290 to 1291--and when the crown went to King John Balliol, he promptly married BalliolÆs sister. In this way the position of his son, another John and this time known as the ôRed Comynö, was strengthened, for he now had a double claim to the throne, and he seems to have disputed BruceÆs claim, for it was he whom Robert Bruce stabbed to death in the church at Dumfries in 1306. The Red ComynÆs son, the last of his line, was killed at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314, fighting against Bruce. Sir Iain Moncreiffe, ScotlandÆs leading Highland historian, has pointed out amusingly that the daughters of this last of the Comyns took the familyÆs claim to the Scottish throne to France, when they fled there from the wrath of Robert Bruce. This eventually passed, by a series of marriages, to King Louis XIV of France! When later the exiled Stuarts, who were of course heirs to Robert Bruce, sought refuge at Louis XIVÆs court, they were placing themselves under the protection of the French heir to King John Balliol! Bruce harried the Comyns ruthlessly after his own power was secure, and devastated the lands of Buchanan. Devastation in the fourteenth century was a grim and bloody affair, and the Comyns paid the price for their lordÆs claim to the Scottish throne. The Lordship of Badenoch passed to the MacPhersons, and the princely family disappears from Scottish history. Not, however, the clan or the name, for to the north of Badenoch the Comyns of Altyre (now the Cummings of Altyre) were seemingly spared by Bruce. The family received grants of land from BruceÆs successors, kings David II and Robert II. They flourished as a Highland clan in Morayshire up to and beyond the end of the Jacobite era, and the present chief of the clan still lives at Altyre. -------------------- Subj: Marie Kinsley/Isaac Cummings Date: 96-08-06 00:12:17 EDT From: CHASLAR To: comings@mcs.net CC: Chascum, Barrymor, CHASLAR Hi Mary Ann, You are so right. I spent the better part of today at the FHC trying to find where I picked up Marie's last name. I am not too knowledgable in this fantastic hobby, but am trying to learn. I do not have access to the two books you refer to. Sure wish I did. Maybe I will be able to find them at the main library downtown Los Angeles. At any rate I have removed the name Kinsley for Marie. I did find an interesting book at the FHC today. It is titled "Genealogical and Family History of the State of New Hampshire" It was compiled by Ezra S. Stearns, assisted by William F. Whitcher and Edward E. Parker. It was published by The Lewis Publishing Company of NY & Chicago in 1908. It says, and I'm quoting: "The origin of the Cummings family is uncertain; the name was taken from the town of Comines, near Lille, on the frontier between France and Belgium. Various traditions account for earlier origin of the family, but all of them are entitled to no more credit than mere traditions. The name has been variously spelled Comines, Comynges, Comyns, Comings, Comyn, Cumings and Cummungs. Tradition states that the emigrant ancester of this family decended from "Red Cumin" of Badenoch in the southeastern district of Iverness-shire, a wild mountainous country presenting wide stretches of bleak moorland. Here the clan flourished from 1080 to 1330, and then began to decline. According to the Chronicle of Melrose, the first of the name who immigrated permanently, was slain with Malcom III, at Alnwick, in 1093, leaving two sons, John and William. From John, all the Cumins in Scotland are said to be descended. Sir John, the Red Cumin of Comyn, was the first Lord of Badenoch, and in 1240 was an ambassador from Alexander II to Louis IX of France. His son John, called the Black Lord of Badenoch, was not inferior to any subject in Scotland for wealth and power, and was one of those who vowed to support Queen Margaret, daughter of Alexander III in her title to the crown. At her death he became a competitor for the crown of Scotland. "As a son and heir of John who was son and heir of Donald, King of Scotland." The son of this Lord, called, in turn, the Red Cumin, was the last Lord of Badenoch of the surname of Cumin. In 1335 a number of the Cumin clan were slain in the feudal battle of Calbleau, in Glenwick, where a stone now marks the spot. The badge of the clan, in Gaelic, was "Lus Nhic Cuiminn," in English, the Cummin plant. There is a lot more that I thought was really interesting, but I already have gone on too long here. Thanks for all your help and the info you sent. I'll look forward to receiving more when you have it all in your data base. Regards, Charles D. Larson 2601 E. Victoria St. #64 Dominguez Hills, CA 90220-6019 (310) 537-6164 ----------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Cummingsology Date: 96-08-30 01:33:50 EDT From: CHASLAR comings@mcs.net, Pammy43324 Just a little something I read in a book titled "The Origin And Signification of Scottish Surnames" With A Vocabulary Of Christian Names, by Cliffford Stanley Sims. CUMMING. A corruption of Comeyn, anciently de Comminges, from Comminges in France. The badge of the family is the cumin-plant, and their arms are azure three garbs of cumin or. They are descended from John Cumyn, Lord of Badenoch, temp. Robert Bruce. (For what ever that might be worth - - - - - CHASLAR) ------------